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      11-02-2009, 04:46 AM   #309
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With a limited run of 25 per year and a list price less than the 911 GT3, they will be imposable to get hold of and will cost much more than list! IMO

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      11-02-2009, 05:03 AM   #310
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7:40 lap time of the Nordschleife very impressive!

How much will this bad boy Cost?
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      11-02-2009, 05:11 AM   #311
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I've got to say I'm not that impressed. DCT only and extreme low availability, likely no availability in US. BMW had been gaining some weight back in my new car deliberations with the possibilities being thrown around as of late. Looks like P cars are back in the lead.
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      11-02-2009, 05:56 AM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I talked to a good Italian friend of mine () and we think that it might be the right time to share some information.

All kudos for this information goes to Savage.Ulm1! I added some comments in blue.


Name
  • It won't be called M3 CSL.
  • Instead, BMW will either call it "M3 GT4 Street" or "M3 GT".
Engine | Drivetrain
  • Naturally aspirated engine with an increased displacement of 4,400 cc (based on the S65).
  • At least 450 hp, likely more.
  • No information regarding KERS (KERS will likely debut in the F10 M5)
  • 7 speed DCT only, no manual transmission.
  • 'State of the art' exhaust system, but not Akrapovic.
Chassis | Brakes | Aerodynamics:
  • Brembo brakes (6 pistons front - 4 pistons rear) with steel brake discs. Ceramic composite brakes optionally available.
  • Weight reduction of 100 kg (220 lbs) compared to E92 M3, maybe even more.
  • Available as a 2 seater. However, rear seats are optionally available.
  • Rollbars standard (there's a delete option).
  • Adjustable front splitter.
  • Adjustable mechanical suspension, no EDC.
  • 25 mm lower compared to E92 M3
  • Same width as the E92 M3.
  • Fantastic new wheels.
  • New 'state of the art' seats.
General information

  • Nuerburgring laptime: 7:40 min
  • Not available through BMW dealer network, but directly from BMW Motorsport.
  • Street legal (of course).
  • Exclusively painted in Inka Orange (a hommage to early BMW race and sports cars). Availability of other colors at a later date.
  • The car was tested secretly in France and on a private race track (likely Miramas).
  • It will compete with the 911 GT3.
  • Limited Production (some report 25 units per year).
  • Price: Unknown, but less than the price for an 911 GT3.
Note: There's no information as to its availability in the U.S. yet.




Best regards,
south
Hopefully the rest will get off Savage's back and respect that the info had to be keep quite limited at that time.

South, remember you question on capacity. I did hinted earlier that we will see better torque from this engine (larger capacity -hint - hint) but no one seemed to noticed this, the fact that it's hp/L has dropped slightly should promote slightly more torque accordingly than just the 10% would suggest. I didn't relay the N-ring time because the figure I heard blew me away by the improvement and frankly didn't believe it, the weight drop doesn't sound that dramatic but it must be where that weight has come off from that was so important. Also finally we had decent brakes in an M car. This thing is so much more hardcore than the earlier planned CSL.

As I said earlier this is a swam song for the N/A engine and a fitting one at that.

P.S.
Any word of the DSC system of this model, I was told that it would offer a revised version with probably a race mode like that of the Ferraris.

The gauntlet has definitely been put down to the rest so we will see what Mercedes and Audi come up with it the future.
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      11-02-2009, 06:00 AM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trier Germany View Post
7:40 lap time of the Nordschleife very impressive!

How much will this bad boy Cost?
That depends on which GT3 they are talking about. If it's the standard GT3 then something below 80K but if it's the GT3RS then that allows the price to climb closer to 100K.

Flankly I think you will see it closer to one and a half times the price of the current M3 E92.

P.S.
Though it still looks dear next to the GTR.
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      11-02-2009, 06:03 AM   #314
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Hi Savage,

Thanks for passing on this information, and to South for putting it on the thread. We all appreciate it.

Im really looking forward to hearing more news on this car officially from BMW - especially when you can order one.

Im a bit disappointed with the fact that there will be no manual transmission, as manual gear changes are part of the fun of driving.

One member said that it would be interesting if they made available a version of this car which included all the mod cons like sat nav,radio. - do you think this is likely?

I know the previous CSL had everything stripped out to save weight.

Thanks again Savage. It shows balls to stick your neck out like you did.
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      11-02-2009, 07:07 AM   #315
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Not available in US. MIGHT be available in Canada.
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      11-02-2009, 07:17 AM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turb934 View Post
Not available in US. MIGHT be available in Canada.
That's not what was said, it's unknown as to whether it will be available in the US. But you have to remember that this is only available through BMW Motorsport and not the official dealer network.
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      11-02-2009, 07:25 AM   #317
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If it is the case that production will be as limited as seems to be the consensus, I fail to see how BMW is throwing down any kind of "gauntlet" to the competition. Any manufacturer can build 25-30 "hot rods." In fact, anyone with a current M3 can have the similar performance today by going to an aftermarket vendor(s) (e.g. RS46), perhaps even for considerably less money.
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      11-02-2009, 07:32 AM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I talked to a good Italian friend of mine () and we think that it might be the right time to share some information.

All kudos for this information goes to Savage.Ulm1! I added some comments in blue.


Name
  • It won't be called M3 CSL.
  • Instead, BMW will either call it "M3 GT4 Street" or "M3 GT".
Engine | Drivetrain
  • Naturally aspirated engine with an increased displacement of 4,400 cc (based on the S65).
  • At least 450 hp, likely more. (445 HP)
  • No information regarding KERS (KERS will likely debut in the F10 M5)
  • 7 speed DCT only, no manual transmission.
  • 'State of the art' exhaust system, but not Akrapovic.- (ARVIN MERTOR /w/200-cell race cats and 2 resonators)
Chassis | Brakes | Aerodynamics:
  • Brembo brakes (6 pistons front - 4 pistons rear) with steel brake discs. (365mm front, 345mm rear SLOTTED DISCS) Ceramic composite brakes optionally available.
  • Weight reduction of 100 kg (220 lbs) compared to E92 M3, maybe even more. (due to the removal of the rear seat and the switch to lighter RECARO front race seats)
  • Available as a 2 seater. However, rear seats are optionally available.
  • Rollbars standard (there's a delete option).
  • Adjustable front splitter. (made of ABS plastic)
  • Adjustable mechanical suspension, no EDC. (SACHS)
  • 25 mm lower compared to E92 M3
  • Same width as the E92 M3.
  • Fantastic new wheels. (BBS lightweight cast flow formed MESH)
  • New 'state of the art' seats. (RECARO)
General information

  • Nuerburgring laptime: 7:40 min
  • Not available through BMW dealer network, but directly from BMW Motorsport.
  • Street legal (of course).
  • Exclusively painted in Inka Orange (a hommage to early BMW race and sports cars). Availability of other colors at a later date.
  • The car was tested secretly in France and on a private race track (likely Miramas).
  • It will compete with the 911 GT3.
  • Limited Production (some report 25 units per year).
  • Price: Unknown, but less than the price for an 911 GT3. ($110,000 EUROS)
Note: There's no information as to its availability in the U.S. yet. (NOT AVAILABLE IN THE U.S.A.)




Best regards,
south
Updated with the information recieved from my internal sources...

Some of these details were obtained through BMW Motorsports sources two months ago, so the final details may have changed since then. I lost interest when I found out we weren't getting the car here in the U.S.

Edit: The exhuast system on the street version WILL have resonators, unlike the track-only version.
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      11-02-2009, 07:39 AM   #319
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Thanks for posting up some details guys.

The next big question is can any of those parts be obtained easily or are they going to make you present your VIN and/or some other proof of ownership.

I am also wondering about how the DCT will be programmed. Like EDC, Drivelogic seems entirely unnecessary in this car.
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      11-02-2009, 07:49 AM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Thanks for posting up some details guys.

The next big question is can any of those parts be obtained easily or are they going to make you present your VIN and/or some other proof of ownership.

I am also wondering about how the DCT will be programmed. Like EDC, Drivelogic seems entirely unnecessary in this car.
Yes, but the cost of these Motorsport parts will be out of this world.

Genuine BMW Motorsport parts cost an arm and a leg. Going back to the E36 M3 Lightweight days, the prices were always 2-3 times what people would expect to pay for a performance part.

I'm sure there will be a 'grey market' for these individual pieces for the U.S. based members (like the E46 M3 CSL parts), but you better start saving your pennies now. These parts won't be easily accessed, and the vendors who are able to acquire them will charge you top dollar. Bet on it.
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      11-02-2009, 08:00 AM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
That's not what was said, it's unknown as to whether it will be available in the US. But you have to remember that this is only available through BMW Motorsport and not the official dealer network.
I know it says it's unknown as to whether it will be available in the US. I stand by that it will not be available in the US.
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      11-02-2009, 08:02 AM   #322
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This is far from big news for the average consumer. My 335i lease is up in May and was hoping the standard M3 would get a bump in performance. How does this help someone like me when they are only building 25 of something in a nasty orange color? Disappointing. How about sharing some of the more mainstream performance improvements with the regular M3 and keep price and availability to a reasonable level?
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      11-02-2009, 08:46 AM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turb934 View Post
Not available in US. MIGHT be available in Canada.
If it does come to Canada,I could be interested.Might be the alternative to the GT3 that seems to be coming closer to reality for myself.
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      11-02-2009, 08:48 AM   #324
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sounds pretty cool,

but why only 25 units?
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      11-02-2009, 09:12 AM   #325
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if it really is limited to a run of only 25 then its gonna be a bidders war or those with connections to the motorsport division, heck I think with these kind of numbers these cars might only be for race teams to buy and not us normal folks.
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      11-02-2009, 09:45 AM   #326
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Thanks Le Mans, that confirms what I heard about the suspension. The weight drop is welcome, sounds like all the weight has came from the rear seat removal, the new Recaros, the wheels for sure and probably a load of standard M3 kit getting thrown out as surplus to requirements in a focused hardcore racer. Nowhere near as extreme in measures as I first thought or what I have heard Audi are intending for their S5 Lightweight with it's extensive use of aluminium and carbon fiber, but then again it does need more help with weight reduction than the M3 did.

The N-ring time is the only thing that sounds incredible, I doubt that the non extreme version with rear seats and no roll bar will approach this time and I don't want to sound like a killjoy but the adjustable suspension setup will be a bending of the rules thing in the same way as Nissan did with their GTR, i.e. it will do this time but only with the suspension set up like so. We will probably see Porsche getting stock one themselves and finding it only capable of a 7:55 lap in their capable hands. After all this car is a threat to their mighty GT3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost3dm3
heck I think with these kind of numbers these cars might only be for race teams to buy and not us normal folks.
You are probably right on this one, though I reckon some units will slip under the radar. 25 units is probably a good number to set as a first-run limit even if they all make it to market, the market isn't up to speed or strength yet and I doubt anyone other than die-hard BMW and M3 fans will buy into it when they could get a 911 GT3 for similar money.

My guess is the next M3 will almost approach this level of performance but without all the extreme measures and at a faction of the price. Personally I'm waiting until 2012-3.
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      11-02-2009, 09:47 AM   #327
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Awesome news. Sucks we wont see it in the states but hey, maybe we'll get a "Competition" version like last time.


For now, does anyone know how I can get my hands on the ArvinMeritor exhaust?
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      11-02-2009, 09:48 AM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Hopefully the rest will get off Savage's back and respect that the info had to be keep quite limited at that time.

South, remember you question on capacity. I did hinted earlier that we will see better torque from this engine (larger capacity -hint - hint) but no one seemed to noticed this, the fact that it's hp/L has dropped slightly should promote slightly more torque accordingly than just the 10% would suggest. I didn't relay the N-ring time because the figure I heard blew me away by the improvement and frankly didn't believe it, the weight drop doesn't sound that dramatic but it must be where that weight has come off from that was so important. Also finally we had decent brakes in an M car. This thing is so much more hardcore than the earlier planned CSL.

As I said earlier this is a swam song for the N/A engine and a fitting one at that.

P.S.
Any word of the DSC system of this model, I was told that it would offer a revised version with probably a race mode like that of the Ferraris.

The gauntlet has definitely been put down to the rest so we will see what Mercedes and Audi come up with it the future.
Yes, I got your hints some days ago. Regarding DSC, this list isn't complete, so there might be some more changes/features.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Updated with the information recieved from my internal sources...
Thanks for adding your information! I added them in the original post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slammedm3 View Post
sounds pretty cool,

but why only 25 units?
We know that it will be limited. Though, we don't know if this is the actual figure. Anyways, 25 per year would still be enough as far as BMW is concerned. If there were a crazy market for pure BMW cars like this, they would have built a new CSL.



Best regards,
south
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      11-02-2009, 09:58 AM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Thanks Le Mans, that confirms what I heard about the suspension. The weight drop is welcome, sounds like all the weight has came from the rear seat removal, the new Recaros, the wheels for sure and probably a load of standard M3 kit getting thrown out as surplus to requirements in a focused hardcore racer. Nowhere near as extreme in measures as I first thought or what I have heard Audi are intending for their S5 Lightweight with it's extensive use of aluminium and carbon fiber, but then again it does need more help with weight reduction than the M3 did.
The information on the weight drop differs quite a bit. It seems like 100 kg at least, but some say BMW managed to drop another 80 - 100kg. Seems like we need to wait a little more until knowing this for sure.


Best regards,
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      11-02-2009, 10:01 AM   #330
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this is sick news!!!! THIS M3 WILL BE A KILLER!!!!
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