New S4 has underrated HP numbers - Page 2

footie · 10-29-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender514

from what i noticed of members post (correct me if im wrong), it seems that most are getting in the neighborhood of 270hp at the wheels...maybe a little more. with a drivetrain loss of 15%, which amounts to 40hp, thats only 310 crank hp. at 20%, its 324 crank hp.

That's why I put in brackets 'if you believe dyno figures'. Personally I have no faith in them as an accurate result unless it's done at the crack.

I believe in one thing, power to weight and nothing else. If you believe in dyno results then the M3 should destroy the RS4 but in every UK test where they were compared the difference is minimum, but compared to PTW the results match.

bdkevoIX · 10-29-2009, 01:16 PM

put stock 335i on the SAME dyno and see what it dynos at.

You can't really say that number is legit unless you have something to compare it with.

And what type of dyno was it?

Nikolas · 10-29-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

That's why I put in brackets 'if you believe dyno figures'. Personally I have no faith in them as an accurate result unless it's done at the crack.

I believe in one thing, power to weight and nothing else. If you believe in dyno results then the M3 should destroy the RS4 but in every UK test where they were compared the difference is minimum, but compared to PTW the results match.

Power delivery and gearing also have as much to do with performance as HP and weight. The numbers on the new Porsche PDK tranny for all their lines are a great examples. In every case the PDK equipped car is actually heavier, but has the same HP. In every case the PDK car is quicker.

adrian1480 · 10-29-2009, 05:38 PM

impressive. I might have to go with an S4 next time around. Cheaper than an AWD 335 Sedan and looks considerably better...and now with similar power?

Only thing that would make it really hard is that mods for 335's are so inexpensive, relative to Audi stuff. there is no $500 Juicebox for Audi. only 18hp from $2000 chip flashes.

Turbo>NA · 10-29-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrian1480

impressive. I might have to go with an S4 next time around. Cheaper than an AWD 335 Sedan and looks considerably better...and now with similar power?

Only thing that would make it really hard is that mods for 335's are so inexpensive, relative to Audi stuff. there is no $500 Juicebox for Audi. only 18hp from $2000 chip flashes.

Hello...?????????

Your caomparing a turbo engine to N/A? Obviously your going to squeeze out 18hp if your lucky from an N/A. Just imagine if the new S4 had a turbo

Ender514 · 10-29-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo>NA

Hello...?????????

Your caomparing a turbo engine to N/A? Obviously your going to squeeze out 18hp if your lucky from an N/A. Just imagine if the new S4 had a turbo

the audi is supercharged

M3_WC · 10-29-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender514

the audi is supercharged

+1 Definitely not NA.

And to the above poster, Audi's through the years have always been cheaper to mod than BMW's. Not the the other way around. Let the Audi modding community get a hold of these cars and we will see big numbers.

Ender514 · 10-29-2009, 06:19 PM

right, the audi community is big on modding those turbo engines. this is nothing new to them.

Nikolas · 10-29-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender514

right, the audi community is big on modding those turbo engines. this is nothing new to them.

It's supercharged so it will be new. I think this is Audi's first supercharged motor.

Ender514 · 10-29-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikolas

It's supercharged so it will be new. I think this is Audi's first supercharged motor.

true. i just meant modding FI audis is not new to them. it wont take them long to develop something.

adrian1480 · 10-29-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3_WC

+1 Definitely not NA.

And to the above poster, Audi's through the years have always been cheaper to mod than BMW's. Not the the other way around. Let the Audi modding community get a hold of these cars and we will see big numbers.

really? because I'm now a member of one of the Audi forums (since I'm considering the S4 and A5) and I've not seen any inexpensive (relatively speaking) mods that compare to what SSTT and JuiceBox do. the gains those items get seem to require a couple of thousand, minimum.

if I'm wrong, I'll be happy. I just haven't seen it. If you can point me in a direction other than where I've been looking, feel free to show me. I'd appreciate it.

FStop7 · 10-29-2009, 08:05 PM

It will be interesting to see how the S4 does with a pulley. 380rwhp maybe?

Sounds like a blast to drive.

aus · 10-29-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AW325xi

There is a big problem with chassis dyno's. It depends on what type of dyno they're using. The only way to truely test hp figures is to pull the engine out and put it on a bench dyno. Chassis dyno are usually used to measure a gain for aftermarket parts to gauge the increase of the stock output.
I had a long discussion with Katech Engineering at Corvettes @ Carlisle a few years back. My stock Z06 dynoed at 445 rwhp on the dyno, with a 15% powertrain loss that is 524 crank hp. When I told him this he said that all the engines from GM that they've dynoed on a bench dyno come in right about 505hp. He said the difference is the way the chassis dyno measure hp.
Don't put too much credit to these numbers. Dyno a 335 back to back with the S4 and see the difference.

I agree completely, but this graph shows it makes the rated power, AT THE WHEELS, and ALL wheel drive at that!!! Doesn't matter what kind of dyno, that engine is WAY underrated.

iatacs19 · 10-29-2009, 09:04 PM

My friend just bought one tonight, I guess it's time to do a little comparison.

domobrown · 10-29-2009, 09:57 PM

That means that MTM chip only added 30 Hp? I might need to sell the M6 for this. I need an slightly more practical car with better low end torque. This fits the bill nicely.

Nikolas · 10-29-2009, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus

I agree completely, but this graph shows it makes the rated power, AT THE WHEELS, and ALL wheel drive at that!!! Doesn't matter what kind of dyno, that engine is WAY underrated.

Edit: Sorry not sure on the dyno. I thought somewhere it said it was a dynapak - my bad.

Draman · 10-30-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrian1480

really? because I'm now a member of one of the Audi forums (since I'm considering the S4 and A5) and I've not seen any inexpensive (relatively speaking) mods that compare to what SSTT and JuiceBox do. the gains those items get seem to require a couple of thousand, minimum.

if I'm wrong, I'll be happy. I just haven't seen it. If you can point me in a direction other than where I've been looking, feel free to show me. I'd appreciate it.

I'm sure at some point APR is going to get involved in tuning the new supercharged engine and they are extremely comprehensive. Once they get going expect to see the full gamut of tuning solutions (flashes, pulleys, exhausts, differentials, intercoolers, fuel pumps etc) all at a reasonable price. Right now there is no real BMW equivalent to what APR does for Audi, though BMS and Vishnu are starting to churn out some interesting stuff.

Boost Gomez · 10-30-2009, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iatacs19

My friend just bought one tonight, I guess it's time to do a little comparison.

You will rock him with the C63.

Any plans for a tune yet?

yellowfellow · 10-30-2009, 01:54 AM

That's crazy.

adrian1480 · 10-30-2009, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draman

I'm sure at some point APR is going to get involved in tuning the new supercharged engine and they are extremely comprehensive. Once they get going expect to see the full gamut of tuning solutions (flashes, pulleys, exhausts, differentials, intercoolers, fuel pumps etc) all at a reasonable price. Right now there is no real BMW equivalent to what APR does for Audi, though BMS and Vishnu are starting to churn out some interesting stuff.

cool. thanks for the insight. I already see amazing things being done with their new 2.0T engine.

M3_WC · 10-30-2009, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrian1480

really? because I'm now a member of one of the Audi forums (since I'm considering the S4 and A5) and I've not seen any inexpensive (relatively speaking) mods that compare to what SSTT and JuiceBox do. the gains those items get seem to require a couple of thousand, minimum.

if I'm wrong, I'll be happy. I just haven't seen it. If you can point me in a direction other than where I've been looking, feel free to show me. I'd appreciate it.

Just be patient, the car basically just got to the US. Let companies like APR, AWE, Revo, Giac, etc do their magic. I have owned a couple A4's in the past and they proven to cost less to mod than the BMW's I have owned. Not to mention the amount of aftermarket parts to choose from. Just look at how many turbo upgrades are out there for all the Audi models. Competition brings lower prices. I think these tuners are drooling over the new supercharged S4.

adrian1480 · 10-30-2009, 03:00 AM

sounds good. like I was saying, they're expecting big mods to what will be a very popular 2.0T engine as well. I might step down to the 2.0T if the after market can get that engine up into the 300's. I could save about $10K in change up front, get the interior color option I want (brown), and probably enjoy the car better because of it.

we'll see what happens. my finalists are pretty much:

335xi coupe (white w/brown; black w/brown)
A5 2.0T coupe (white w/brown; black w/brown)
S4 coupe (white w/black; black w/black; black w/red)

...and I have about 4 months to really decide. next year's announcements, happenings, and aftermarket modifications with those 3 cars' engines will have a great influence on my decision. I'm not going to be racing any of them. I just want to know I have that kick ready to rock when I floor it on the highway.

10-29-2009, 01:16 PM	#24
bdkevoIX Captain Drives: 06 Evo IX Mr Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 739 iTrader: (0)	put stock 335i on the SAME dyno and see what it dynos at. You can't really say that number is legit unless you have something to compare it with. And what type of dyno was it? __________________ 03 Golf TDI w/ r32 conversion - 120bph/40mpg ftw for now.. 06 Evo IX MR - 500whp,,,sold.....

10-29-2009, 06:19 PM	#30
Ender514 General Drives: 2009 E92 335i Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Philly Posts: 21,001 iTrader: (0)	right, the audi community is big on modding those turbo engines. this is nothing new to them. __________________ 09' E92 335i \| 6MT \| Montego Blue \| Black Dakota Leather \| Dark Burl Walnut \| Premium \| Sport \| Cold Weather \| Nav \| Sirius \| Comfort Access \| iPod and USB adapter

10-29-2009, 08:05 PM	#34
FStop7 I like cars Drives: M6 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Newbury Park, CA Posts: 5,061 iTrader: (3)	It will be interesting to see how the S4 does with a pulley. 380rwhp maybe? Sounds like a blast to drive. __________________ My photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/racelap/

10-29-2009, 09:04 PM	#36
iatacs19 Major General Drives: 335is Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 5,186 iTrader: (6)	My friend just bought one tonight, I guess it's time to do a little comparison. __________________ If at first you don't succeed, failure may be your style. BMWCCA Referral

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10-29-2009, 09:57 PM	#37
domobrown Banned Drives: Audi RS5 S-Tronic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Salzburg, Austria Posts: 512 iTrader: (0)	That means that MTM chip only added 30 Hp? I might need to sell the M6 for this. I need an slightly more practical car with better low end torque. This fits the bill nicely.

10-30-2009, 01:54 AM	#41
yellowfellow First Lieutenant Drives: '07 STi Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 363 iTrader: (0)	That's crazy.