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      10-05-2009, 12:59 PM   #1
hiimwayne
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Wow Porshe Panamera Turbo runs a 7:56 at Nurburging

http://wot.motortrend.com/6558855/au...s-v/index.html

When Nissan ran a time of 7:37 with the GT-R, Porsche called them liers saying the GT-R had a less than ideal power to weight ratio. The Panamera weighs more than the M5 and CTS-V and has less power, but is faster than them around the track. Heck its 1 second off a Ferrari F430 and approaching an SLR Mclarens lap time. Surely a lowly Nissan couldn't do it but the godly Porsche could
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      10-05-2009, 01:06 PM   #2
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Looks aside, which I don't mind, the real life reviews I have seen praise the car. I like it.

Your comments lend an air of sarcasm, yes?

Sure the AM Rapide is drop dead gorgeous but you could buy a Panamera Turbo with a 997 TT and a loaded Cayenne GTS for about the same money.

And I know the people who can afford the AM could care less. Let's get that out of the way.


EDIT: I just read some of the comments. It seems it is universal to compare cars, CTS-V, to one another just to spit out insults. Lordy.
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      10-05-2009, 01:09 PM   #3
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I foresee a 100 page thread with lots of flames flying around

Maybe it can do that because it was developed to be a 4 door sports car from the beginning. The M5 and CTS-V are essentially normal saloons with jumped up hardware attached to them later.

Regarding the 430 and the SLR, both of them are getting on a bit now and the 'mera is only a few months old. Advances in technology surely played a part.
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Being a fan of Honda engines, I requested that they consider building for the F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up with a BMW engine.
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      10-05-2009, 01:14 PM   #4
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Just to add:

Porsche cried foul only after buying a GT-R in America, plonking their best driver in it and having him run the ring only to find that he was nowhere near the time Nissan was shouting about from the hilltops.

Because these tests are not standardized, we cant accurately pick sides but they do win brownie points for fielding a valid argument.
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Being a fan of Honda engines, I requested that they consider building for the F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up with a BMW engine.
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      10-05-2009, 01:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue2fire View Post
Maybe it can do that because it was developed to be a 4 door sports car from the beginning. The M5 and CTS-V are essentially normal saloons with jumped up hardware attached to them later.
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      10-05-2009, 01:51 PM   #6
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Thumbs up

This is impressive regardless of how ugly that car is.

Porsche = Performance.

p.s - Not to bring up the GTR Warz again, but no third party has been able to come close to matching Nissan's fastest GTR time.
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      10-05-2009, 02:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimwayne View Post
Surely a lowly Nissan couldn't do it but the godly Porsche could
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue2fire View Post
Advances in technology surely played a part.
Only Porsche are allowed to "defy the laws of physics."
According to Porsche, the GT-R is only 2 seconds faster than the Panamera on the 'Ring.
PDK-equipped Porsches weigh more than manual-transmission cars, yet Porsche says the 997.2 Carrera S w/PDK is 8 seconds faster on the 'Ring than the manual car.

The funny thing is that when Porsche called BS on Nissan's time, their argument was that it was impossible for the Nissan to do the time because it weighed 20kg's more than the Turbo. In reality, the weight difference is almost 10x's that, and only the GT-R managed a 7:38 (Porsche's claim for their 997 Turbo) in independent testing, verifying Nissan's first official time which everyone was saying was impossible given the GT-R's specs. German mags (very experienced in driving Porsches and based in none other than Stuttgart) have found the GT-R to be 14-16 seconds faster than the Turbo, the exact opposite of Porsche's claim. Porsche have been well and truly discredited on their claim of the GT-R's capability.

BTW, 1st independent tests in Germany have been done for the updated 997 Turbo with slightly more hp and PDK.
0-100: 3.1
0-200: 10.8
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      10-05-2009, 04:03 PM   #8
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I for one totally believe in the Nissan time, total knowledge of the chassis and car makes a world of difference but so far the closest is 9 seconds off with a similar spec and such a difference is very possible with unfamiliarity, less than ideal conditions, a less capable driver and a stock car that hasn't been nursed by Nissan's finest engineers.

Lets see how close someone gets to Porsche's own time, only then will we truly know how great the chassis is. I hate the looks be praise the engineering, few are better chassis designer than Porsche.
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      10-05-2009, 04:31 PM   #9
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I for one totally believe in the Nissan time, total knowledge of the chassis and car makes a world of difference but so far the closest is 9 seconds off with a similar spec and such a difference is very possible with unfamiliarity, less than ideal conditions, a less capable driver and a stock car that hasn't been nursed by Nissan's finest engineers.

Lets see how close someone gets to Porsche's own time, only then will we truly know how great the chassis is. I hate the looks be praise the engineering, few are better chassis designer than Porsche.
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      10-28-2009, 06:35 AM   #10
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C/D test results on the PT.


0-60 3.4 seconds
1/4 Mile 11.7 @ 118

4650 lbs


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      10-28-2009, 08:39 AM   #11
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I personally believe nissan's time and panamera's time.
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      10-28-2009, 11:18 AM   #12
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Got an invite a day next week to take either a normal or turbo (which ever is present) Panamera out for the day to see what I think, hopefully if I get the time I will post some pics and an opinion on what I found.
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      10-28-2009, 11:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guibo View Post
Only Porsche are allowed to "defy the laws of physics."
According to Porsche, the GT-R is only 2 seconds faster than the Panamera on the 'Ring.
PDK-equipped Porsches weigh more than manual-transmission cars, yet Porsche says the 997.2 Carrera S w/PDK is 8 seconds faster on the 'Ring than the manual car.

The funny thing is that when Porsche called BS on Nissan's time, their argument was that it was impossible for the Nissan to do the time because it weighed 20kg's more than the Turbo. In reality, the weight difference is almost 10x's that, and only the GT-R managed a 7:38 (Porsche's claim for their 997 Turbo) in independent testing, verifying Nissan's first official time which everyone was saying was impossible given the GT-R's specs. German mags (very experienced in driving Porsches and based in none other than Stuttgart) have found the GT-R to be 14-16 seconds faster than the Turbo, the exact opposite of Porsche's claim. Porsche have been well and truly discredited on their claim of the GT-R's capability.

BTW, 1st independent tests in Germany have been done for the updated 997 Turbo with slightly more hp and PDK.
0-100: 3.1
0-200: 10.8
BTW all the magazines have also verified that the PDK transmissions while heavier are faster than their manual counterparts on all models with the PDK. Gearing and shift speed are both good friends in attaining speed fast.
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      10-28-2009, 12:01 PM   #14
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I also believe Nissan got that time as well. I do however think that the Nissan that Porsche purchased to test was different than the one Nissan took around the ring.
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      10-28-2009, 12:33 PM   #15
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I dont believe any of these times. Who knows whats been done to the cars? Most of these seem like "hot" cars

Id like to see a magazine do some independent tests, where they walk into a dealership, buy a random car off the lot and then run it. I can only dream..
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      10-29-2009, 01:16 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolas View Post
BTW all the magazines have also verified that the PDK transmissions while heavier are faster than their manual counterparts on all models with the PDK. Gearing and shift speed are both good friends in attaining speed fast.
Totally agreed and as you say, the mag tests bear this out. PDK also allows practically uninterrupted power delivery during the shift as well; full throttle shifts too.

Some more Panamera Turbo figures from recent tests:

Road & Track
0-60: 3.4
1/4 mi: 11.7 @ 118
Skidpad: 0.96g, mild understeer
Slalom: 69.1 mph, neutral

Car & Driver
0-60: 3.3 seconds
0-160: 24.6 seconds
1/4-mi: 11.7 seconds @ 119 mph
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      10-29-2009, 03:00 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital.James View Post
I dont believe any of these times. Who knows whats been done to the cars? Most of these seem like "hot" cars

Id like to see a magazine do some independent tests, where they walk into a dealership, buy a random car off the lot and then run it. I can only dream..
When magazine test the weight of each car tested then you will get that result because up to a point power to weight is the thing that determines a car's acceleration. Bruce will back this up and I bet Swamp and some of the others will too.

AWD will out perform up to a certain speed but usually it works itself out as the speed increases. Though how that AWD system works is the real trick, if it disengages shortly after the launch, only coming into play in corners then it can produce results slightly better than expected but it will only be slight. When you look at the Panamera Turbo and GTR both appear to be kicking out a bit more than quoted if their tested weight is correct to factory spec.
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      10-29-2009, 03:34 AM   #18
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None of these times are done at a sanctioned race event. There is no standardized timing equipment. No sanctioning body to oversee any of these times.

They are all bogus, technically.
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      10-29-2009, 03:49 AM   #19
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None of these times are done at a sanctioned race event. There is no standardized timing equipment. No sanctioning body to oversee any of these times.

They are all bogus, technically.
I can't speak for the rest of the world but the UK magazines take this part of the test very seriously and use suitable equipment. The problem is that some test don't start the timer at a dead stop but after the 1ft roll out which is effectively 5mph on a quick car, the excuse that this is done because it's the same as on a dragstrip is BS, simply facts are it improves their results. So their acceleration figures will be different.

It's the one thing that really should be standardized because everything else, the part where the journalist thinks which car is best is the opinionated bit.
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      11-01-2009, 10:37 PM   #20
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I drove one today. It is an absolutely AMAZING car. Incredible interior and workmanship. The highest quality u could expect. It put the 4 door Bentley next to it to shame. At the 150k dollar price tag I have to ask myself .. .whats the point?? I dont see the point.
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      11-02-2009, 07:46 AM   #21
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Quote:
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I also believe Nissan got that time as well. I do however think that the Nissan that Porsche purchased to test was different than the one Nissan took around the ring.


theres no way the GTR wasnt fitted with a few little extras things to help stability and minor tune up.

they gave porsche a bone stock one then obviously
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      11-02-2009, 08:18 AM   #22
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I don't care if the Panamera did 0-60 in 1 second and a lap of the Nurburgring in 1:55! I could never get over the ugly. It looks like two manatees humping....
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