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      10-28-2009, 01:33 AM   #1
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Thumbs up King Tut's Active Autowerke Custom Dyno Tuned Experience

Well on Saturday night I arrived in lovely Miami, FL. After an exciting and frustrating day in Landshark Stadium on Sunday, I drove to Active Autowerke for my 9:30 am appointment for custom dyno tuning on Monday. I was told I would be out of there no later than 12:30 pm which was good since I had a 10 hour drive home ahead of me.

Things started off a little slow as Omar got the car in their system and placed the floor mat protector and customer number on the rearview. The car was pulled onto their Mustang Dynamometer at 10:00 am and strapped down. I had never had this car or any previous car dynoed on one of these so it was a learning experience for me. The tuner pulled the car on the dyno and then ran the wheels while unstrapped to center the car on the rollers. He then proceeded to do the standard strapping in the front and the back. He then put what looked to be a custom made pipe used to hold the O2 sensor for the air fuel readings in one of my 4 exhaust tips. It was secured to the exhaust with a wire so it wouldn't come flying out. I have seen previous shops with Dynojets use a long thin tube which is clamped to the exhaust tip. The AA solution seemed alot better, although I was surprised they didn't prefer sticking the O2 sensor directly in my mid pipe since the car is catless. He then proceeded to move a very large box fan in front of the car and tighten that down. That was followed by 2 smaller blue fans that each were angled to shoot at the radiator. My normal dyno only uses one of these blue fans on a ladder in front of the car for cooling so this was more cooling than I was used to for dyno runs. It was also interesting that they didn't run a wire to the coils to get a tach/RPM signal which is required on a Dynojet. I asked him about that and he said the dyno calculates it. I guess this accounts for why the dyno plot before says I made max power before 8200 RPM when I know the car pulls past that on a Dynojet.

Now that the car was ready the tuner got his laptop and plugged into the OBD port to capture the settings of the car. He made some pulls and some steady rpm runs then went in the back where I guess he does the programming. At this point it was time for an early lunch, and I got to see an actual lunch truck come by the shop and hit the big air horn meaning it was chow time. 30 minutes later, and he came out and did some more runs for the baseline and then did the flash. He made some more pulls and then went back in the room again to do some more work programming I guess. He came out and flashed the car again and did some more pulls at which point he was happy with the car. He told me the car made good power and said the car went from 338 to 358 which made me very happy. Better yet the car was done before 12:30 pm as promised.

The car was very loud on the dyno and many of the AA employees came over to check it out including one guy who crawled under to look at my RPi exhaust. I have included an image of the dyno plots from the baseline and the AA tune. The important thing to note is how the car makes more power throughout the RPM range and how AA was able to richen up the A/F from 4000 to 6000 RPM and lean it out from 6500 RPM to rev limit. Air temps were between 80 and 90 degrees during the dyno runs in the lovely hot and humid Miami weather. Overall, I am very happy with the tune. The most noticeable difference is on cold start up where I guess they disabled the strange M3 cold startup procedure that caused my RPi exhaust to wake the entire neighborhood on startup. Now the car starts and stays quiet instead of how it used to take a couple minutes at least before the car quieted down. I plan to take the car to my local Dynojet dyno next month where I baselined my car before any modifications at 340 whp. Any comments, questions, or suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

Modifications:

RPi Full GT Exhaust
AA Pulley
MS Filter
AA Tune

Dyno:

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Last edited by King Tut; 02-19-2011 at 02:20 PM.
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      10-28-2009, 02:08 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Tut View Post
Well on Saturday night I arrived in lovely Miami, FL. After an exciting and frustrating day in Landshark Stadium on Sunday, I drove to Active Autowerke for my 9:30 am appointment for custom dyno tuning on Monday. I was told I would be out of there no later than 12:30 pm which was good since I had a 10 hour drive home ahead of me.

Things started off a little slow as Omar got the car in their system and placed the floor mat protector and customer number on the rearview. The car was pulled onto their Mustang Dynamometer at 10:00 am and strapped down. I had never had this car or any previous car dynoed on one of these so it was a learning experience for me. The tuner pulled the car on the dyno and then ran the wheels while unstrapped to center the car on the rollers. He then proceeded to do the standard strapping in the front and the back. He then put what looked to be a custom made pipe used to hold the O2 sensor for the air fuel readings in one of my 4 exhaust tips. It was secured to the exhaust with a wire so it wouldn't come flying out. I have seen previous shops with Dynojets use a long thin tube which is clamped to the exhaust tip. The AA solution seemed alot better, although I was surprised they didn't prefer sticking the O2 sensor directly in my mid pipe since the car is catless. He then proceeded to move a very large box fan in front of the car and tighten that down. That was followed by 2 smaller blue fans that each were angled to shoot at the radiator. My normal dyno only uses one of these blue fans on a ladder in front of the car for cooling so this was more cooling than I was used to for dyno runs. It was also interesting that they didn't run a wire to the coils to get a tach/RPM signal which is required on a Dynojet. I asked him about that and he said the dyno calculates it. I guess this accounts for why the dyno plot before says I made max power before 8200 RPM when I know the car pulls past that on a Dynojet.

Now that the car was ready the tuner got his laptop and plugged into the OBD port to capture the settings of the car. He made some pulls and some steady rpm runs then went in the back where I guess he does the programming. At this point it was time for an early lunch, and I got to see an actual lunch truck come by the shop and hit the big air horn meaning it was chow time. 30 minutes later, and he came out and did some more runs for the baseline and then did the flash. He made some more pulls and then went back in the room again to do some more work programming I guess. He came out and flashed the car again and did some more pulls at which point he was happy with the car. He told me the car made good power and said the car went from 338 to 358 which made me very happy. Better yet the car was done before 12:30 pm as promised.

The car was very loud on the dyno and many of the AA employees came over to check it out including one guy who crawled under to look at my RPi exhaust. I have included an image of the dyno plots from the baseline and the AA tune. The important thing to note is how the car makes more power throughout the RPM range and how AA was able to richen up the A/F from 4000 to 6000 RPM and lean it out from 6500 RPM to rev limit. Air temps were between 80 and 90 degrees during the dyno runs in the lovely hot and humid Miami weather. Overall, I am very happy with the tune. The most noticeable difference is on cold start up where I guess they disabled the strange M3 cold startup procedure that caused my RPi exhaust to wake the entire neighborhood on startup. Now the car starts and stays quiet instead of how it used to take a couple minutes at least before the car quieted down. I plan to take the car to my local Dynojet dyno next month where I baselined my car before any modifications at 340 whp. Any comments, questions, or suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

Modifications:

RPi Full GT Exhaust
AA Pulley
MS Filter
AA Tune

Dyno:

+20 HP and +8 lb/ft. TRQ is a little disappointing given all the mods you have on the car.

With a underdrive pulley, hi-flow engine filter, full free-flowing aftermarket exhaust system, AND a custom dyno tune...your car should have made a lot more power throughout the rev band.

Did you expect to see a bigger 'bump' yourself?

I'd be kind of disappointed If I were you.

But then again...I'm typically a tough critic on aftermarket parts in general.
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      10-28-2009, 02:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Tut View Post
Well on Saturday night I arrived in lovely Miami, FL. After an exciting and frustrating day in Landshark Stadium on Sunday, I drove to Active Autowerke for my 9:30 am appointment for custom dyno tuning on Monday. I was told I would be out of there no later than 12:30 pm which was good since I had a 10 hour drive home ahead of me.
Did you used to have a black '97 Supra with mods up the ass? I saw it somewhere in the internet a long time ago, and I remember the name Tut and that he was from Florida also... My assumptions are probably way off though...
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      10-28-2009, 02:34 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eVitO View Post
Did you used to have a black '97 Supra with mods up the ass? I saw it somewhere in the internet a long time ago, and I remember the name Tut and that he was from Florida also... My assumptions are probably way off though...


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      10-28-2009, 03:04 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
+20 HP and +8 lb/ft. TRQ is a little disappointing given all the mods you have on the car.
You are confused. The 20 hp gain was JUST the custom dyno tuning. No parts were installed while on the dyno.
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      10-28-2009, 03:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eVitO View Post
Did you used to have a black '97 Supra with mods up the ass? I saw it somewhere in the internet a long time ago, and I remember the name Tut and that he was from Florida also... My assumptions are probably way off though...
Not me. I am on the Internet in lots of places, but my past cars have been an E46 M3, 350Z, and Civic hatch with LS/VTEC swap.
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      10-28-2009, 03:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Tut View Post
...I baselined my car before any modifications at 340 whp.


Quote:
Originally Posted by King Tut View Post
You are confused. The 20 hp gain was JUST the custom dyno tuning. No parts were installed while on the dyno.
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      10-28-2009, 03:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post




Read the beginning of his sentence. It says his baseline was done on a local Dynojet. Look at the Dyno sheet, it is a Mustang dyno. Two different dynos.

Like he said wait until he dynos on his local Dynojet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by King Tut View Post
I plan to take the car to my local Dynojet dyno next month where I baselined my car before any modifications at 340 whp.
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      10-28-2009, 04:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Read the beginning of his sentence. It says his baseline was done on a Dynojet. Look at the Dyno sheet, it is a Mustange dyno. Two different dynos.

Like he said wait until he dynos on his local Dynojet.
Yes, I know it's a Mustang dyno. That's what AA has used for years now.

I saw that he stated his 340rwhp baseline pull was done on a dynojet, and that still doesn't explain the disparity in power here. 340rwhp on a Dynojet is LOW to begin with, and adding all those aftermarket mods, while having it all custom dyno tuned should have increased his power by 30hp easy. (effective gains with all those parts working together)

The baseline run on the dyno chart shows 338rwhp, which is very close to what he claims his STOCK engine dynoed.

Dynojets are traditionally VERY generous in the HP/TRQ numbers they measure.

None of these numbers make any sense, and a E92 M3 modded in this manner should produce a lot more power on 93 octane premium unleaded.

Something on his car is not functioning correctly. His car should easily be in the upper 360's or low 370's rwhp wise, and the torque should be 10+ lb/ft. higher as well.

This car is under-performing, based on the evidence provided by a large cross-section of M3 owners in the dyno database.

If you do the math, (and you believe these dyno numbers are NORMAL), his drivetrain loss would have to be over 25%.

We know this car does not have drivetrain losses that high, and he has under drive pulleys that are reducing the accessory DRAG on the motor by 16%.

The numbers just don't add up, so something else is going on with his car...

Hmm...

I wonder what Pencilgeek's take will be on this issue...
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      10-28-2009, 04:17 AM   #10
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I'm sorry man but you are still confused. Have you looked at this link:

http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/DynoDB.html

Or read threads about how different dynos can't be compared. This thread is not to talk about the final number. The only comparison that can be made is the before the tune and the after the tune. By the way in case you were wondering, here is a plot from Active's dyno that shows a stock M3 making 318 hp:



My car is running perfectly, and just to appease the hp freaks I will probably make over 380 hp when I jump on my local Dynojet.
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      10-28-2009, 04:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
340rwhp on a Dynojet is LOW to begin with
Hmm, I look at the DynoDB and I see that Sticky and Joey@Fabspeed dynoed 334 hp on a Dynojet stock with 93 octane. I guess my engine must be broke since it only made 340 hp on a Dynojet stock. I'm sorry man, I normally respect what you have to say, but your way off the mark tonight.
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      10-28-2009, 04:29 AM   #12
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I got similar mods.. I made 382whp/280wtq on Dyno Dynamics.
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2009 E92 M3 | Alpine White | Black Extended | Advan RS | Turner Test Pipes | Dinan Axle-Back | OETuning | Eibach Springs | UUC SSK | VRS Front Lip | VRS Type I Diffuser | Matte Black | RPi Scoops | MS Filter | Yokohama AD08 | F1 Pinnacle
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      10-28-2009, 05:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Tut View Post
Hmm, I look at the DynoDB and I see that Sticky and Joey@Fabspeed dynoed 334 hp on a Dynojet stock with 93 octane. I guess my engine must be broke since it only made 340 hp on a Dynojet stock. I'm sorry man, I normally respect what you have to say, but your way off the mark tonight.
Well...the highlighted text is even more confusing then, since Sticky and Joey (Fabspeed) are both located in Cali, where 93 octane unleaded is not available...

So either they were precisely mixing and batching their gasoline for those runs...or there was a mix up in the data they sent Pencilgeek.

Fuel octane is very important in extracting maximum power from a naturally aspirated engine. A difference of two RON/MON octane index points matters.

I'll repeat this again in case you missed it the first time...

Your car is under-performing, considering the mods in question, and the fuel you have access to in FL.

Not sure WHY you are arguing with me, instead of trying to track down why it's not making more power than it is...

Estimate the horsepower gains you think all you mods are giving you combined (in addition to the 414hp you already have stock), then subtract 15% for drivetrain losses...and tell me I'm confused.

And btw, I'm never confused.

A quick refresher to remind you of how much power potential the mods you have now can actually produce:

DLSJ5's car using 91 octane fuel with similar mods to your car, made 362 rwhp SAE corrected on a Mustang dyno this past June...
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      10-28-2009, 06:16 AM   #14
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There are at least 20whp AWOL here...
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      10-28-2009, 06:30 AM   #15
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Joey@Fabspeed is located in PA as far as I know, and according to his profile.
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      10-28-2009, 06:48 AM   #16
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Joey@Fabspeed is located in PA as far as I know, and according to his profile.
That's right, I was thinking of another vendor thar sells Fabspeed...
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      10-28-2009, 06:52 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
There are at least 20whp AWOL here...
That's what I keep trying to tell him...but he refuses to accept it.

Those numbers are LOW for the combined performance of all the installed parts plus a custom ECU tune. (even on a Mustang dyno)

The OP has...

High flow MS air filter
RPI GT full cat delete /w/ x-pipe + rear mufflers (free-flowing header back exhaust system)
AA 16% underdrive pulley
Custom ECU dyno tune
93 octane unleaded gasoline

This setup does not = 358 rwhp , 254 lb./ft trq.
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      10-28-2009, 09:33 AM   #18
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I'm gonna ask to delete this thead. It is obvious that the user's of this forum do not understand dynos and are Internet racing cars by comparing dyno runs. There is nothing wrong with my car and I am not missing 20 hp. Dynos should be used for tuning and for comparing before and after. They aren't for reaching some magical number so you can brag on the Internet. You say I'm missing 20 hp yet your proof shows a different Mustang dyno and someone who made 4 more hp than me. Note that dyno showed a stock M3 make 328 hp while AA's dyno says a stock M3 makes only 318 hp. That is a 10 hp difference so add that on to mine and I made 368 which is more than the dyno you posted. You can't just use some magical formula of X says it makes X hp and so I add them together and subtract drivetrain loss. Not all dynos read the same. This is a proven fact.
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      10-28-2009, 10:05 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
That's right, I was thinking of another vendor thar sells Fabspeed...
You mean you were confused???

I think the OP has nice numbers, but not as high as other's have achieved with similar mods and a custom tune.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      10-28-2009, 10:15 AM   #20
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I'm gonna ask to delete this thead. It is obvious that the user's of this forum do not understand dynos and are Internet racing cars by comparing dyno runs. T
No, I think it's that right now people have a bone to pick with AA because of what is perceived as their ADV wheel spamming and anything to do with AA is going to be criticized.
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      10-28-2009, 10:16 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
I think the OP has nice numbers, but not as high as other's have achieved with similar mods and a custom tune.
I realize this, and I have presented the reasons why. AA's Mustang dyno just reads lower than the majority of dynos out there. They still don't read the lowest as in the DynoDB there is a stock car making only 305 hp on a Mustand dyno. That car must really be broken by the logic in this thread. The reason for this thread and the FACT is that they got me another 20 hp and my car runs great.
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      10-28-2009, 10:20 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
No, I think it's that right now people have a bone to pick with AA because of what is perceived as their ADV wheel spamming and anything to do with AA is going to be criticized.
I know Lemans has a bone to pick with AA and ADV wheels. That shouldn't be brought up in my thread. I was at AA and they are a nice group of guys and a professional shop. I hope the ADV wheel thing works out for them. I only saw one while I was there and it had a real cool truck bed kind of coating on it giving it a cool color and texture. They had multiple guys doing welding and another guy fixing what appeared to be a broken axle on a 335 while I was there so they aren't some fly by the night shop. They have been there for a long time, and they will continue to be.
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