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      10-16-2009, 02:51 PM   #67
zuggerat89
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Originally Posted by gr8000 View Post
100% with you on lighter weight and a simpler overall car. Also, I would certainly not want to be the first in the que to get this kind of widely untested technology (and in general something that is brand new and untested). I think I already got a fare share of the DCT lag issue... (I would still buy it if I could go back in time but you see what I mean)
Yeah I hear ya.

DCT was definitely a gamble that paid off, it's a great gearbox. Even aside from the reliability issue, I am not sure if I see the point of KERS for the road. What would they be using it for? Temporary boost in power or helping to power auxiliary systems?
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      10-16-2009, 04:04 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
The CSL will be more cost effective (I don't mean cheap) this go around secondary to increased availability of the materials. Though they are testing it, it would still need to be cost effective and be useful in marketing.
Sure, I just don't see it being any more out of reach than for an M5, at least not for cost reasons.

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Also, BMW ALWAYS launches new technology in a new model so there is not a chance it would be released in the ///M3 before the ///M5. Why do you think they released the F01 when they did- new iDrive, F07 new N55 motor etc.... you will always see a new model get the new stuff first.
I somewhat agree that it makes more sense to debut KERS on the M5. For marketing reasons, mainly. But I don't think BMW has any sort of hard and fast rule about when to introduce new technology. For example BMW intro'd SMG in the middle of the E36 M3 model run. They use technology where it makes sense, when it makes sense.
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      10-16-2009, 04:45 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuggerat89 View Post
DCT was definitely a gamble that paid off, it's a great gearbox. Even aside from the reliability issue, I am not sure if I see the point of KERS for the road. What would they be using it for? Temporary boost in power or helping to power auxiliary systems?
Maybe a combination of both, but if I was to decide BMW's account I would place priority in powering smoothly electric driven turbos. Turbos seems the way to go going forward, so the question then is how do you manage to replicate the smooth throttle responce of a NA engine. KERS powering (electric driven) turbos for best responce could be (part of) the answer.
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      10-16-2009, 05:23 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8000 View Post
KERS powering (electric driven) turbos for best responce could be (part of) the answer.
Do you mean a pre-spool system for the turbocharger? I seriously doubt it would be feasible, because of the very high RPMs needed for the turbo. The turbo's very efficiency comes from the fact that there is no mechanical linkage to sap energy. Just makes no sense to me. Any future KERS system is more likely to integrate directly in the transmission (and thus no manual transmission option on those cars).


I also seriously doubt they have time to design, engineer, legalize a KERS system in the 2 years left of the E9x M3 production cycle (Euro or US).
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      10-16-2009, 05:35 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by adc View Post
Do you mean a pre-spool system for the turbocharger? I seriously doubt it would be feasible, because of the very high RPMs needed for the turbo. The turbo's very efficiency comes from the fact that there is no mechanical linkage to sap energy. Just makes no sense to me. Any future KERS system is more likely to integrate directly in the transmission (and thus no manual transmission option on those cars).
Yes thats what I mean. Not sure if it is feasible but fits nicely in my mind! The high rpms issue may be solved with appropriate gearing if needed - although the electric motors would only kick in at lower turbo rpms, then exhaust gasses would take over.

I am not saying it would work (mechanically or financially) but at least it makes sence to my mind.

BTW, what's sap energy?

Using KERS straight to the wheels is the more obvious solution, but for street use I am not sure what kind of advantage it would really offer. Plus this sudden surge in power could be dangerous, unless it is electronically watered down / smoothened out, or made available in higher speeds only.
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      10-16-2009, 05:39 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8000 View Post
BTW, what's sap energy?
To sap means to waste.

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Using KERS straight to the wheels is the more obvious solution, but for street use I am not sure what kind of advantage it would really offer. Plus this sudden surge in power could be dangerous, unless it is electronically watered down / smoothened out, or made available in higher speeds only.
Since it would be electronically controlled electric motors, an algorithm would be in place to control the amount of torque deployed. I'm sure it's easy to make it appear just as a larger NA engine from behind the wheel.
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      10-16-2009, 05:57 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by adc View Post
To sap means to waste.
Oh I see.

The mechanical linkage of an electric motor to the turbo shaft does not necessarily imply that energy would be wasted when the motor is not operating. At lower rpms the electric motors would run the turbo and at higher rpms exhaust gasses would take over. If a one-way shaft bearing is used then the electric motor will run freely on the turbo shaft at higher rpms i.e. energy will not be wasted in dragging the electric motor (there will only be some minor frictional bearing losses). Not sure if I make any sense...
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      10-16-2009, 05:58 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by adc View Post
Since it would be electronically controlled electric motors, an algorithm would be in place to control the amount of torque deployed. I'm sure it's easy to make it appear just as a larger NA engine from behind the wheel.
Sure, that should be doable.
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      10-16-2009, 09:39 PM   #75
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Here is the first video of this M3 from the track :

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312477

Enjoy.
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      10-18-2009, 03:55 PM   #76
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what are those RIMS ? they look like the ones that make IPODs disappear...lol
They're matte black V710's like mine,hahaha.j/k
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      10-18-2009, 05:21 PM   #77
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I'm surprised this thread isnt 15 pages already...

Very excited....sure hope this is the M3 CSL
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      10-18-2009, 06:46 PM   #78
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Quote:
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Not sure if I make any sense...
I'm pretty sure you don't. An electric supercharger might make more sense.
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      10-19-2009, 12:57 AM   #79
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this thread alone made me sign up... finally... i sure hope this is not a dream
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