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      10-05-2009, 12:34 PM   #45
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I think the OP initiated this mess.
Sure the buyers offer was a lowball, but look at the economy and the going prices on these cars. And like another person mentioned... his offer of $45k means he was probably willing to pay $48-50k. Negotiations are a dance between the buyer and seller.

The OP responded in a childish and arrogant tone and this set things off. If that's too low for you, just politely decline the offer.
And why the paranoia about giving out the VIN? Most online vehicle classifieds show it.
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      10-07-2009, 09:09 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achenator View Post
The buyer was a little premature in asking for the VIN after coming in with a lowball like that. IMO that comes after he sees the car, and we agree on price. THEN he gets the vin # to do with what he wishes.
You've got it a bit out of order. Running a background check before spending the time and gas money to drive out to see a car is absolutely acceptable.

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Originally Posted by ericld View Post
Obviously the best thing you could have done would be to ignore the lowball offer and not reply, but this guy seemed boisterous from the word "go" by lowballing by thousands and demanding your vin.
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Originally Posted by Brosef View Post
I find it incredibly rude for somebody to offer $13K less than what you're asking and presumptuously demand the VIN before speaking with you.
Where in this initial e-mail was the VIN demanded? He just simply asked for it to run an initial check on the car before planning on going to see it in person. Most buyers will do this.

Quote:
From: buyer@hotmail.com>
To: seller
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 3:29:23 PM
Subject: Your M3 for sale


Hello,

I'm interested in purchasing your M3. I saw the car listed on Car For Sale. I'm located here in Arlington.

I am offering you $45k. May I have your VIN number as well? I need to check for warranty and repair work.

thanks,
Buyer
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      10-09-2009, 04:21 PM   #47
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      10-09-2009, 06:54 PM   #48
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FWIW, I thought the seller was being more of an ass. The buyer offered a low price, but it wasn't ridiculously lower than what a dealer would ask for a trade in. That's just part of negotiating.

Secondly, he asked nicely if he may have the VIN, probably to run a carfax report. I would think that's a completely reasonable offer if I'm purchasing a used luxury car.

Instead the OP makes a childish reply. A simple and courteous reply turning down the offer or making a counter offer would have suffice.
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      10-10-2009, 10:05 AM   #49
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well... lets put it this way.. if some here are willing to sell their 08-09 M3, modded or not for $45k let me know and Im certainly more open to pick one up as my daily or buy and sell it.

There I said it and have turn the table around
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      10-14-2009, 09:15 PM   #50
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Here is your daily driver.....2008 w/ an asking price of $39K

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Originally Posted by emthree4me View Post
well... lets put it this way.. if some here are willing to sell their 08-09 M3, modded or not for $45k let me know and Im certainly more open to pick one up as my daily or buy and sell it.

There I said it and have turn the table around
Also, please do let us know if you get anything near your asking price. IMO, the potential buyer was being nice to you after your smart a-ss response to him / her.

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      10-14-2009, 09:56 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by emthree4me View Post
Im glad someone sees my point of view.. totally premature

in fact my lightheartness response was return with a direct insult
he fire the first direct shot with the word Jerk!

I sense too that this forum is also visited by private dealers or salesmen in the field.. to rattle the cage a bit to seize opportunities on vulnerable sellers


buying and selling cars is a mind game at times
I'm sort of with the seller here. Hey, we all want to make a deal but lowballers sux. Or more precisely the thinking of lowballers are off. Lowballing is fine, especially with an OBO on a seller's listing...BUT lets try to be logically here. If a lowball price is below what a dealer may offer as a trade or buy (and lets be honest, a dealer would be offering more then 45k for that car) why the heck would a seller sell you the car? Its pretty stupid to consider a seller doing so.

And again lowballers want to quote manheim prices and auctions prices, this and that but you know what? A private sell isn't a auction. If all lowballers can get the auction prices I hear quoted on these threads all the time, why the heck would they buy a private seller's car? Why don't they just buy those cars at auction for those ridiculous lowball prices?

But I can be wrong? Anyone brought a 09 M3 coupe for 45k here? Tell me.
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      10-14-2009, 10:02 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTG View Post
Also, please do let us know if you get anything near your asking price. IMO, the potential buyer was being nice to you after your smart a-ss response to him / her.

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Ok, so you found a 08 M3 for under 45k. I'm impressed.

Too bad the car only has 50,000 plus miles on it.
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      10-14-2009, 10:32 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warzilla View Post
I'm sort of with the seller here. Hey, we all want to make a deal but lowballers sux. Or more precisely the thinking of lowballers are off. Lowballing is fine, especially with an OBO on a seller's listing...BUT lets try to be logically here. If a lowball price is below what a dealer may offer as a trade or buy (and lets be honest, a dealer would be offering more then 45k for that car) why the heck would a seller sell you the car? Its pretty stupid to consider a seller doing so.

And again lowballers want to quote manheim prices and auctions prices, this and that but you know what? A private sell isn't a auction. If all lowballers can get the auction prices I hear quoted on these threads all the time, why the heck would they buy a private seller's car? Why don't they just buy those cars at auction for those ridiculous lowball prices?

But I can be wrong? Anyone brought a 09 M3 coupe for 45k here? Tell me.
OK, so please tell me why this is any justification for acting like a jerk? In any negotiation, it's NOT personal. If you think it is, or if you respond to a low-ball offer with a childish insult, you are a lousy (e.g. not very smart) negotiator.

You always "catch more bees with honey."
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      10-14-2009, 10:52 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by foosh View Post
OK, so please tell me why this is any justification for acting like a jerk? In any negotiation, it's NOT personal. If you think it is, or if you respond to a low-ball offer with a childish insult, you are a lousy (e.g. not very smart) negotiator.

You always "catch more bees with honey."
I wouldn't defend or justify the OP's response.

But I would say that when someone lowballs beyond reason (and I think it was beyond reason here), then its not really a real negotiation or even an honest offer. So its up to the seller to decide how to respond. The OP responded in his own way.

My point is: I don't agree with the lowballing mentality some people on these forums have.
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      10-14-2009, 11:10 PM   #55
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This thread was not about a "low-balling mentality" on this or any other forum. It was about how one responds when they place ad to sell a car, and someone offers them less than what they thought was fair.

It is a "no-brainer" to say that nothing is gained by insulting the low-baller, other than perhaps stroking a too-fragile ego. What's wrong with just saying, "no, that is not close to what I would accept," and making a counter-offer (or not). It wouldn't have taken any more effort to respond in a more appropriate fashion. That's what this thread was about.
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      10-14-2009, 11:18 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foosh View Post
This thread was not about a "low-balling mentality" on this or any other forum. It was about how one responds when they place ad to sell a car, and someone offers them less than what they thought was fair.
I didn't know there was a thesis to follow on this thread. I was just giving an opinion.

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Originally Posted by foosh View Post
It is a "no-brainer" to say that nothing is gained by insulting the low-baller, other than perhaps stroking a too-fragile ego. What's wrong with just saying, "no, that is not close to what I would accept," and making a counter-offer (or not).
I agree with you here. But everyone responds in different ways and the OP decided to respond in his way. You nor I may agree with it, but I have to admit that I found it a bit amusing in his response and posting of the email correspondence.
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      10-15-2009, 09:42 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warzilla View Post
If all lowballers can get the auction prices I hear quoted on these threads all the time, why the heck would they buy a private seller's car? Why don't they just buy those cars at auction for those ridiculous lowball prices?

But I can be wrong? Anyone brought a 09 M3 coupe for 45k here? Tell me.
The answer your seeking here is simple.

You won't know, if you don't ask.

There is nothing wrong with tossing out a number if you are a serious inquiry, which that guy might of been before he got run off. Typically, the first number given is on the far side of reasonable. Then you work towards a mutually beneficial price.
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      10-15-2009, 11:27 AM   #58
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There is nothing wrong with tossing out a number if you are a serious inquiry, which that guy might of been before he got run off.
I think this is probably where we may disagree. I don't think saying 45k for a 09 M3 coupe that is spec'ed out as per the seller's description is a serious inquiry. That is sort of my point on the lowballer mentality. If its normal that a 09 M3 Coupe, fully loaded and low mileage can come at 45k, then thats fine. But I don't think that is EVEN a realistic buying number for a private sell. Hence it throws out any pretense that the buyer was serious.

Again, if you can get above 45k for that car at a dealer, why would someone sell to a private buyer for under that? Its just not realistic. I asked on this thread if someone can prove me wrong here and actually show a case where they brought a 09 M3 Coupe, fully loaded, low mileage at such a price. Until someone shows me otherwise, I think the point is made that 45k is just unrealistic and not a true buying price for a private sell.

As for the argument that you and others make that its part of the negotiating process, I say bullocks. A true negotiation comes when two parties want to a) sell/buy an item and b) can reach a range of a price that leads to the settlement of a final price. But when one party shows no true honestly nor even remotely close to a range, then there is no framework for a negotiation. And it goes back to my point, the guy was 'lowballing' AND not making a low offer. Big difference.

Just to keep on going here, I have sold many cars in my lifetime to private sells including a 335 coupe earlier this year. And I have brought/sold many homes as well. From my experience, anytime you have a sell, you work with a bid from a buyer. Part of that is you look at what the market bears (from both sides). So again, if you look at this case, where is the market for a 09 M3 coupe, loaded, low miles? From a private sell outlook, does it come at 45k? I think not, not by a long shot. You may say yes on auction, but guess what, this is not a auction sell. So if a buyer is serious, they should understand the delta on what is out there and when you come in at 45k - which by the way is almost 30% off what the seller's price is (58k)- its beyond realistic. And hence when I say its a problem that I call the "lowballer mentality", which to be honest is sooo prevalent on this forum and other BMW forums in general. I've been to other brand forums but for some reason, a 'lowball-them' mentality really sticks here, and from what I've seen on the marketplace, there is no realistic basis for it. NOTE: To prove my point, just did a autotrader.com search in a 300 miles radius from my location and the lowest 09 M3 coupe on the market, again private sell, was 57k. Zip I used was: 07652

Now again, if you guys disagree and think that 45k is a even remotely reasonable price for the car that we are talking about, please show me or tell me of a car that was brought at that price. Proof is in the pudding gents/ladies.
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      10-15-2009, 11:39 AM   #59
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Warzilla,

The next time I try to sell something, I'm going to send you a PM first. Based on the above, it sounds like a good shot to get my best price.
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      10-15-2009, 12:33 PM   #60
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Warzilla,

The next time I try to sell something, I'm going to send you a PM first. Based on the above, it sounds like a good shot to get my best price.
LOL. You got it.
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      10-15-2009, 01:38 PM   #61
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Warzilla, really living up to the name lol. I dont think $45K was that unreasonable. Its a used high performance car in a recessionary market...maybe he figured the OP was strapped for cash and might accept the offer. Who knows? Like others said, it cant hurt to ask. Its not like the guy offered $5k or something....$45k is def not outlandish.
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      10-15-2009, 04:45 PM   #62
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sooner or later, a used M3 will be sold for $45,000
so it starts somewhere, why not this car?
people were saying that about finding an M3 for less than 50K
now that is possible

i think it's wrong to respond with a smart ass reply, regardless of the offer
so if he had offered 30K you would have cursed him out ??
what if he had offered 15K?
what would you have done then?
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      10-15-2009, 04:56 PM   #63
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Thks for a very analytical response warzilla! It just made sense and I cant see why so many wannabe sales pundits here can not see the irony of my reply. .

Quote:
Originally Posted by warzilla View Post
I think this is probably where we may disagree. I don't think saying 45k for a 09 M3 coupe that is spec'ed out as per the seller's description is a serious inquiry. That is sort of my point on the lowballer mentality. If its normal that a 09 M3 Coupe, fully loaded and low mileage can come at 45k, then thats fine. But I don't think that is EVEN a realistic buying number for a private sell. Hence it throws out any pretense that the buyer was serious.

Again, if you can get above 45k for that car at a dealer, why would someone sell to a private buyer for under that? Its just not realistic. I asked on this thread if someone can prove me wrong here and actually show a case where they brought a 09 M3 Coupe, fully loaded, low mileage at such a price. Until someone shows me otherwise, I think the point is made that 45k is just unrealistic and not a true buying price for a private sell.

As for the argument that you and others make that its part of the negotiating process, I say bullocks. A true negotiation comes when two parties want to a) sell/buy an item and b) can reach a range of a price that leads to the settlement of a final price. But when one party shows no true honestly nor even remotely close to a range, then there is no framework for a negotiation. And it goes back to my point, the guy was 'lowballing' AND not making a low offer. Big difference.

Just to keep on going here, I have sold many cars in my lifetime to private sells including a 335 coupe earlier this year. And I have brought/sold many homes as well. From my experience, anytime you have a sell, you work with a bid from a buyer. Part of that is you look at what the market bears (from both sides). So again, if you look at this case, where is the market for a 09 M3 coupe, loaded, low miles? From a private sell outlook, does it come at 45k? I think not, not by a long shot. You may say yes on auction, but guess what, this is not a auction sell. So if a buyer is serious, they should understand the delta on what is out there and when you come in at 45k - which by the way is almost 30% off what the seller's price is (58k)- its beyond realistic. And hence when I say its a problem that I call the "lowballer mentality", which to be honest is sooo prevalent on this forum and other BMW forums in general. I've been to other brand forums but for some reason, a 'lowball-them' mentality really sticks here, and from what I've seen on the marketplace, there is no realistic basis for it. NOTE: To prove my point, just did a autotrader.com search in a 300 miles radius from my location and the lowest 09 M3 coupe on the market, again private sell, was 57k. Zip I used was: 07652

Now again, if you guys disagree and think that 45k is a even remotely reasonable price for the car that we are talking about, please show me or tell me of a car that was brought at that price. Proof is in the pudding gents/ladies.
kinda hard for me to believe a guy that drives a volkswagen have any stake in this matter
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Warzilla, really living up to the name lol. I dont think $45K was that unreasonable. Its a used high performance car in a recessionary market...maybe he figured the OP was strapped for cash and might accept the offer. Who knows? Like others said, it cant hurt to ask. Its not like the guy offered $5k or something....$45k is def not outlandish.
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      10-15-2009, 06:44 PM   #64
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I see now. It's a personality thing . . .
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      10-15-2009, 07:36 PM   #65
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kinda hard for me to believe a guy that drives a volkswagen have any stake in this matter
As if your original post wasn't hateful enough you go and top yourself! Too bad the M3 you bought didn't come with some class.
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      10-15-2009, 07:41 PM   #66
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As if your original post wasn't hateful enough you go and top yourself! Too bad the M3 you bought didn't come with some class.
That was a good retort. Damn this thread is entertaining.
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