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      10-06-2009, 08:20 PM   #1
dadC4s
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2010 S4 vs M3

I had been planning on a new M3 to replace my Z4 M coupe when it comes off lease in March but today I drove the new S4. Its a very impressive car and was a hoot to drive. Very fast, very solid and the dual clutch tranny was sweet. The Quattro is a real advantage given all the rain and snow we see in the midwest. The car is more comfortable and practical and with every option (Voice activated Nav, Bang and Olufsen stereo, adjustable suspension and torque distributing rear diff, rear view camera, sunroof, etc etc) is just under 60K. It also gets 28mpg on the highway! Someone please tell me why I should spend 10k more for the M3, I am starting to waver....
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      10-06-2009, 08:23 PM   #2
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Does it really matter what any of us on the forum say? Its YOUR car and if S4 makes you happy, go for it.
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      10-06-2009, 08:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadC4s View Post
I had been planning on a new M3 to replace my Z4 M coupe when it comes off lease in March but today I drove the new S4. Its a very impressive car and was a hoot to drive. Very fast, very solid and the dual clutch tranny was sweet. The Quattro is a real advantage given all the rain and snow we see in the midwest. The car is more comfortable and practical and with every option (Voice activated Nav, Bang and Olufsen stereo, adjustable suspension and torque distributing rear diff, rear view camera, sunroof, etc etc) is just under 60K. It also gets 28mpg on the highway! Someone please tell me why I should spend 10k more for the M3, I am starting to waver....
My M3 Sedan got me through about 90inches of snow in SE Wisconsin last year. With snows on it, it will drive better in the snow than an S4 with all seasons on it. The only time I couldn't drive was when there was 3ft. of freshly fallen snow on the ground. I hate to tell you that the S4 would have been grounded too. So don't let the weather thing change your mind.

If you care about performance, then the M3 is much better. I also think it is a better looking car, but that is subjective. Personally I would never own an Audi, as everyone that I know that has one has had problems with it.

Either way, they are both good cars. Just ask yourself if you will second guess yourself if you buy the S4 and you see an M3 drive by. I'm thinking yes. If you buy an M3 and you see an S4, you will not second guess yourself.
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      10-06-2009, 08:34 PM   #4
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its not even the same type of car.... go test drive the last gen RS4 and then compare it to the S4 you test drove... the RS4 is much closer to the m3 then the s4 is. the s4 is more of a fast daily driver, the rs4 and m3 are track machines.
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      10-06-2009, 08:36 PM   #5
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dude....you already sound sold on the S4...so get it. If you can't answer the question yourself about why you should spend 10K more on an M3....than the M3 is not for you.
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      10-06-2009, 08:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpblue View Post
My M3 Sedan got me through about 90inches of snow in SE Wisconsin last year. With snows on it, it will drive better in the snow than an S4 with all seasons on it. The only time I couldn't drive was when there was 3ft. of freshly fallen snow on the ground. I hate to tell you that the S4 would have been grounded too. So don't let the weather thing change your mind.

If you care about performance, then the M3 is much better. I also think it is a better looking car, but that is subjective. Personally I would never own an Audi, as everyone that I know that has one, has had problems with it.

Either way, they are both good cars. Just ask yourself if you will second guess yourself if you buy the S4, everytime you see an M3. I'm thinking yes. If you buy an M3 and you see an S4, you will not second guess yourself.
LOL, the S4 doesn't come equipped with "all-seasons," and just imagine it with snow tires.

OP, pick the car that floats your boat. You're not going to get objective advice by asking people on a BMW forum for objective opinions on another car.
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      10-06-2009, 08:41 PM   #7
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Who would want a performance car loaded with all that extra crap? Come on, who needs a rear view camera on an s4? Please do yourself a favor and get the s4.
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      10-06-2009, 08:46 PM   #8
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all good comments, all have the ring of truth to them. I have always had either Porsches or BMWs and frankly was surprised how good the Audi was. I will have to think it over. I do think that the M3 is better looking and better sounding and is clearly more hard core and spiritual, the S4 really is not the same thing, I just need to look deeply into myself and find out what is right for me. The most important knowledge is self knowledge...
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      10-06-2009, 08:47 PM   #9
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I can echo the sentiment here that just because it is 4wd does not mean the car stock will be good in the snow. You will need snow tires.

I had an 03 Evo VIII and the car would not go 5ft in the snow with the stock tires.

It looks like Audi has really stepped up it's game with the new s4 though. Just got done reading Car and Driver's take on it vs. the 335. Not sure why they didn't test it agianst the M3, or at least had a short side comparision. If we are to to think Audi "S" is along the same lines as BMW "M"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadC4s View Post
I had been planning on a new M3 to replace my Z4 M coupe when it comes off lease in March but today I drove the new S4. Its a very impressive car and was a hoot to drive. Very fast, very solid and the dual clutch tranny was sweet. The Quattro is a real advantage given all the rain and snow we see in the midwest. The car is more comfortable and practical and with every option (Voice activated Nav, Bang and Olufsen stereo, adjustable suspension and torque distributing rear diff, rear view camera, sunroof, etc etc) is just under 60K. It also gets 28mpg on the highway! Someone please tell me why I should spend 10k more for the M3, I am starting to waver....
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      10-06-2009, 09:06 PM   #10
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Get the S4. It's not like it is your last car. Give it a try... worst case the novelty wears off in 6 months, you drive a car you aren't thrilled with another 6 months or a year and then you go get into something different.

I really enjoy the M3. It seems to be getting better with age.
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      10-06-2009, 09:09 PM   #11
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My POV on your 2010 S4 vs M3 decision.

The S4, like most contemporary Audi's will be very appealing. Great Nav (Audi has the best tele-metrics in German brands), MMI, interior quality, build quality, Quattro, turbo V6, good fuel mileage, etc.

But Audi made a conscious decision some time ago that the S line is no longer the most prestigious/powerful model in a car type (ie A4, A6, A8, etc). Before the S-line was the top option model, but now they have really watered down that brand and made the RS line the top models of each line (ie RS4, RS6, R8, TT-RS, etc). So when when you drive a S4, its not even the top dog in the A4 lineup. And on top of that some guy can buy the same body gear on his 2.0 A4 and look like your S4 (that you paid 20k more for). How would that make you feel? Don't you feel for 60k, you should get something that is really special?

The M3 is the de-facto top dog of the 3 series. You buy a M3, you won't worry about any 3 series even looking remotely nor performing similar like the M3. And you won't get that crazy, high-revving V8 engine. Trust me, no turbo six is going to makeup the thrill you get when you gun the V8. Hence why Audi decided to stick with the V8 with the 2010 S5, and not go to the turbo V6 that is in the S4.

Big difference when you pay that much money I think. And BTW - I come from a long history from Audi (S4, A6, A4s, etc).
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      10-06-2009, 09:17 PM   #12
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The engine alone should be worth the extra 10 grand . If not, you're not worthy of an M3 .
I'll never own Audis that are based on FWD platforms, like the S4 (that's why they're AWD), but that's just me. Good luck.
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      10-06-2009, 09:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foosh View Post
LOL, the S4 doesn't come equipped with "all-seasons," and just imagine it with snow tires.

OP, pick the car that floats your boat. You're not going to get objective advice by asking people on a BMW forum for objective opinions on another car.
Whether the S4 comes with all seasons or sports tires, you get the point. The M3 will perform just as well in the snow with snow tires on. The exception is if the S4 has winters on as well. Many people with AWD don't bother to even get winter tires.
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      10-06-2009, 09:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadC4s View Post
all good comments, all have the ring of truth to them. I have always had either Porsches or BMWs and frankly was surprised how good the Audi was. I will have to think it over. I do think that the M3 is better looking and better sounding and is clearly more hard core and spiritual, the S4 really is not the same thing, I just need to look deeply into myself and find out what is right for me. The most important knowledge is self knowledge...
That is the point of the M3....it is the spirit of the car, no other car has the spirit of an M3....there is just something about the car...ask any M3 owner and they'll know what I am talking about. It is the connectivity of car and driver, the ultimate balance between luxury and performance. The S4 is a fine machine, no question about it, I wouldn't mind testing it out one day myself....but the M is truly unique and special.

In the end it is your choice as you are spending the dough! If you really like the S4 give it a try....if your not satisfied, The Spirit of M will be awaiting you!

Ps...I was not trying to be rude with my above comment on "mabye the M3 is not for you." Sometimes my enthusiasm gets the best of me. hehe

I wish you the best in your decision....let us know what you decide.
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      10-06-2009, 09:34 PM   #15
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My answer to all these:

TEST DRIVE BOTH DAMN CARS!



(the M3 has all the options the S4 has... but you got to fork some $)
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      10-06-2009, 09:47 PM   #16
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The S4 does not comapre to the M3, it does to the 335i.

I had a B7 S4, loved it, but regret not getting the E46 M3 over it.
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      10-06-2009, 09:50 PM   #17
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You said you've always had bmws and pcars but i'm assuming you never had an m or if you did, you didn't enjoy it as much as you should... Cause you would never be in this kind of dilemma of deciding whether or not to spend 10k more on an m3 vs getting a "comparable" s4... On a 60k car, should not even be a question. Good luck in making your decision, hope you'll be satisfied either way.
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      10-06-2009, 10:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpblue View Post
Whether the S4 comes with all seasons or sports tires, you get the point. The M3 will perform just as well in the snow with snow tires on. The exception is if the S4 has winters on as well. Many people with AWD don't bother to even get winter tires.
No, I don't understand why anyone would make such a point. That's why I laughed the first time at the comparison. Most people at least make an attempt to compare OEM to OEM (both on UHP tires), which would then lead one to the obvious logical extension that the S4 will be better on snow tires than the M3 on snow tires.

And why would "most people with AWD not bother to get winter tires"? Could it be because AWD handles better on OEM tires in slippery conditions? That can only mean it also handles better on snow tires.
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      10-06-2009, 10:33 PM   #19
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Uh, no. It's because most people are stupid and don't have a basic grasp of high school physics. So they go down and buy a sedan with x-drive or quattro and think they are somehow any safer.

Everyone knows the best thing for northern climates are AWD cars with all-season tires, because it helps so much stopping in the snow amirite!?


The comparison is perfectly valid, if you compare the price difference between an AWD and RWD 3 series you can see that the difference is worth more than a set of snow tires. I got hit by a JEEP that couldn't stop at an intersection where I was able to stop with my Z4M roadster (snow tires).
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      10-06-2009, 10:43 PM   #20
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Uh no . . . it's because, all things being equal, an AWD car on the same tires as a RWD car IS better on slippery surfaces, regardless of whether the driver is stupid or smart. And an AWD car on snow tires is better than a RWD car on snow tires. The comparison of RWD on snows vs. AWDs on UHP tires was simply illogical. It is rather obvious that you can do all kinds of things to ANY car to improve it's capability, whether it's about speed or traction.

Obviously, neither can defy the laws of physics, and AWD vs. RWD has nothing to do with braking. Sorry about your Jeep accident . . . I'm sure it had nothing to do with anti-lock brakes vs. not, or speed differentials, or driver inattention, or anything like that.
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      10-06-2009, 11:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foosh View Post
Uh no . . . it's because, all things being equal, an AWD car on the same tires as a RWD car IS better on slippery surfaces, regardless of whether the driver is stupid or smart. And an AWD car on snow tires is better than a RWD car on snow tires. The comparison of RWD on snows vs. AWDs on UHP tires was simply illogical. It is rather obvious that you can do all kinds of things to ANY car to improve it's capability, whether it's about speed or traction.

Obviously, neither can defy the laws of physics, and AWD vs. RWD has nothing to do with braking. Sorry about your Jeep accident . . . I'm sure it had nothing to do with anti-lock brakes vs. not, or speed differentials, or driver inattention, or anything like that.

It was not illogical. Most people with AWD don't bother to buy a dedicated set of winter wheels. They think they are fine with the OEM tires. My point was if the OP just invested in winter tires then he'd be better off than an AWD with stock tires. This means the M3 is fine in the snow.

I don't want to argue. Do you have your period? Why else would you nitpick?
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      10-06-2009, 11:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foosh View Post
No, I don't understand why anyone would make such a point. That's why I laughed the first time at the comparison. Most people at least make an attempt to compare OEM to OEM (both on UHP tires), which would then lead one to the obvious logical extension that the S4 will be better on snow tires than the M3 on snow tires.

And why would "most people with AWD not bother to get winter tires"? Could it be because AWD handles better on OEM tires in slippery conditions? That can only mean it also handles better on snow tires.
The reason most people with AWD cars don't get winter tires is for the same reason that people in SUVs speed through snowstorms and ice as though they are invincible. Reason: most people are fcking stupid.
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