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      10-02-2009, 11:26 PM   #1
Mr Tonka
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Question....

I saw a bumper sticker that left me somewhat perplexed. it was on the back of a brand new Toyota SUV, not sure which one, bigger than a 4Runner though, but not the Land Cruiser. Anyhow, there were several stickers. 3 of them very obvious... 2 obama stickers, one "Yes We DID" sticker. the one I wasn't sure of read "Too Poor to Vote Republican" i don't quite get it, so i figured i'd ask the political heavyweights in the forum to fill me in.
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      10-03-2009, 12:49 AM   #2
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Sorry, that one has me confused too. But hey, I'm a huge fan of bumper stick philosophy! I mean, if your message can't be distilled down to 3 or 4 witty words on a 2.5"x5" sticker, it is clearly far too complex for the majority of Americans....

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      10-03-2009, 11:53 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP0WER View Post
I saw a bumper sticker that left me somewhat perplexed. it was on the back of a brand new Toyota SUV, not sure which one, bigger than a 4Runner though, but not the Land Cruiser. Anyhow, there were several stickers. 3 of them very obvious... 2 obama stickers, one "Yes We DID" sticker. the one I wasn't sure of read "Too Poor to Vote Republican" i don't quite get it, so i figured i'd ask the political heavyweights in the forum to fill me in.
It means he is poorer than his Republican acquaintances, but with Obama he has hope that these Republicans will get taxed to equality.
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      10-03-2009, 12:27 PM   #4
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he hopes to have some wealth redistributed his way. (also note the hypocritical save the warming earth but I drive a huge SUV attitude)
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      10-04-2009, 05:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan0102 View Post
lol as if the rich don't pay enough hehe
true.
Isn't it something like 75% of the taxes collected are paid by 20% of the population? If you make 30K or less you pay 0.00!!

Times like this make me so pissed i went to college, working my way through it, to get to a higher earning bracket, So that i can now turn around and pay for some lazy a$$ that feels they were somehow cheated out of something in life and the govt should fix it. "here is your healtcare buddy" "here ya go Mr UAW worker, you NEED $75.00 an hour to turn 17 screws and monitor the robot" ...

I should have done it the easy way.... sit on my but and wait for the govt to give me a piece of the pie they collect!!

only one of my parents graduated High school... i did not come from money. I worked everyday to get where i am. I hate people that are lazy and expect a good income and benefits to boot.

and to keep it on topic... I am not too rich or poor to vote either way; I vote for who shares some of my views
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      10-04-2009, 10:05 PM   #6
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No, it's worse. The numbers are pretty consistent as you go back in time, but in 2007; nearly 72% of federal taxes were paid by only 10% of the American's who filed a return. That 10% figure would drop drastically if we factored in those Americans who don't file a return.

People who have an AGI of $410k or more make up 1% of the tax paying citizens and submit 40.42% of federal taxes.

4% of tax payers have an AGI of $160 - $410k and pay 20.21% of federal taxes.

Another 5% of tax payers have an AGI of $113 to $160k and pay 10.59% of federal taxes.

15% of tax payers have an AGI of $66 - $113k and pay 15.37% of federal taxes.

25% of tax payers have an AGI of $32 - $66k and pay in 10.52% of federal taxes.

And the most glaring number.... 50% of America's tax payers contribute only 2.89% of the federal taxes. Again, that doesn't take into account those americans who don't file a tax return.
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      10-04-2009, 11:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP0WER View Post
No, it's worse. The numbers are pretty consistent as you go back in time, but in 2007; nearly 72% of federal taxes were paid by only 10% of the American's who filed a return. That 10% figure would drop drastically if we factored in those Americans who don't file a return.

People who have an AGI of $410k or more make up 1% of the tax paying citizens and submit 40.42% of federal taxes.

4% of tax payers have an AGI of $160 - $410k and pay 20.21% of federal taxes.

Another 5% of tax payers have an AGI of $113 to $160k and pay 10.59% of federal taxes.

15% of tax payers have an AGI of $66 - $113k and pay 15.37% of federal taxes.

25% of tax payers have an AGI of $32 - $66k and pay in 10.52% of federal taxes.

And the most glaring number.... 50% of America's tax payers contribute only 2.89% of the federal taxes. Again, that doesn't take into account those americans who don't file a tax return.
Yea... those sound like what i read a while back. Thanks for the info and post. STILL... it really pisses me off to hear people bitch about taxes that pay nothing but expect everything!
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      10-05-2009, 12:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptwob311 View Post
Yea... those sound like what i read a while back. Thanks for the info and post. STILL... it really pisses me off to hear people bitch about taxes that pay nothing but expect everything!
Pay nothing??? You are forgetting the ones who not only pay nothing, but also get PAID by the government! My wife has done a few tax returns where her client not only got all their withholding taxes back, but also got an additional $2,000!

Now that is a real situation....
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      10-05-2009, 09:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP0WER View Post
No, it's worse. The numbers are pretty consistent as you go back in time, but in 2007; nearly 72% of federal taxes were paid by only 10% of the American's who filed a return. That 10% figure would drop drastically if we factored in those Americans who don't file a return.

People who have an AGI of $410k or more make up 1% of the tax paying citizens and submit 40.42% of federal taxes.

4% of tax payers have an AGI of $160 - $410k and pay 20.21% of federal taxes.

Another 5% of tax payers have an AGI of $113 to $160k and pay 10.59% of federal taxes.

15% of tax payers have an AGI of $66 - $113k and pay 15.37% of federal taxes.

25% of tax payers have an AGI of $32 - $66k and pay in 10.52% of federal taxes.

And the most glaring number.... 50% of America's tax payers contribute only 2.89% of the federal taxes. Again, that doesn't take into account those americans who don't file a tax return.
Once we get to a point where just over 50% pay nothing or pay nothing AND get money back, we'll be in even more trouble, since what's to stop the mentality of just voting for whatever guy promises to keep those 50% in the same situation of paying nothing or even getting money back?
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      10-05-2009, 01:13 PM   #10
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Did all you just finish reading Atlas Shrugged for the first time, hence all the posts about redistribution? Next thing you know - you are all going to suggest the rich go on 'strike' and stop creating, innovating, investing to teach the 'takers' a lesson?

The reason the Progressive tax is in place versus the Flat tax is because you can get more revenue from the former rather than the latter. I cherish the day that some uber rich guy brings suit in Federal Court using the Equal Protection clause stating that he is being taxed inequitably compared to another citizen, solely on the basis of his fortune or prosperity.

Now that would be change we could believe in..
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      10-05-2009, 02:51 PM   #11
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Forget about the 50% who only pay in 2.89%. They're actually paying something! They are actually following the rules and playing fair. (within the game anyway)

In 2007 the census tells us that there were 305 million Americans. Subtract those Americans under the age of 16 and the Americans over the age 68 and that leaves roughly 225 million Americans who should have filed a tax return of some kind. According to the IRS there were only 139 million returns filed. That leaves 86 million people not paying taxes. That's a lot of people. If those people only paid in $100 a month there would have been an additional $103 BILLION dollars paid into federal income taxes in 2007 alone.

I know $103 billion doesn't solve all of our problems, but if the 244million people who didn't file a tax return in 2007 didn't get to vote in 2008.... things would be different, i can't say i believe it would be 100% better, but different for sure.

I put an emphasis on Americans a lot in the 2nd paragraph. That’s because these figures don’t take into account the illegal aliens earning American money while not paying American taxes.
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      10-05-2009, 02:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scollins View Post
Pay nothing??? You are forgetting the ones who not only pay nothing, but also get PAID by the government! My wife has done a few tax returns where her client not only got all their withholding taxes back, but also got an additional $2,000!

Now that is a real situation....
The earned income tax credit was expanded under Reagan, so blame him.

You guys need to calm down. First look at income distribution in the United States. Then consider the effect of FICA and Medicare, the first of which is regressive and the second of which is flat.

The total federal tax system, when plotted against income distribution, is far from being unfair to the wealthy. In fact the people taking it in the shorts are not the rich, but the ones close too, but still under, the FICA cap.

And no, I do not get any money from the EITC. In fact I am not paying FICA at the moment and am well into the AMT. Nevertheless I do the patriotic thing and pay my taxes. I got where I am with a lot of work, but I am honest enough to know that there has been an element of luck. And helping my fellow citizens whose luck has been harsh is the right thing to do.

IGMFU is not a basis for a country or a society. And it certainly is not a policy that Jesus would have followed.
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      10-05-2009, 02:56 PM   #13
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I think the bumpersticker is a play on the misconception that you have to be rich to be a republican.
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      10-05-2009, 03:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Septro View Post
Did all you just finish reading Atlas Shrugged for the first time, hence all the posts about redistribution? Next thing you know - you are all going to suggest the rich go on 'strike' and stop creating, innovating, investing to teach the 'takers' a lesson?

The reason the Progressive tax is in place versus the Flat tax is because you can get more revenue from the former rather than the latter. I cherish the day that some uber rich guy brings suit in Federal Court using the Equal Protection clause stating that he is being taxed inequitably compared to another citizen, solely on the basis of his fortune or prosperity.

Now that would be change we could believe in..
I've been meaning to read 'Atlas Shrugged' but have so far not sat down with it.

As for tax systems, on the surface at least I'm impressed with the concept of the FairTax. Better than both a progressive and flat tax IMO. That said, I saw an article on Yahoo! Finance about how some are calling for a VAT in the states. Who's willing to bet with me that if they ever enacted a VAT, they wouldn't also reduce the current income tax rates at the same time. Or at least if they did initially, they would slowly climb back up, and then we'd have both VAT and income taxes. Yay.
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      10-05-2009, 03:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nostrum09 View Post
I've been meaning to read 'Atlas Shrugged' but have so far not sat down with it.

As for tax systems, on the surface at least I'm impressed with the concept of the FairTax. Better than both a progressive and flat tax IMO. That said, I saw an article on Yahoo! Finance about how some are calling for a VAT in the states. Who's willing to bet with me that if they ever enacted a VAT, they wouldn't also reduce the current income tax rates at the same time. Or at least if they did initially, they would slowly climb back up, and then we'd have both VAT and income taxes. Yay.
I could also support the Fair Tax if the 16th Amendment to the Constitution were repealed and income tax were permanently abolished.
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      10-05-2009, 08:07 PM   #16
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I think the bumpersticker is a play on the misconception that you have to be rich to be a republican.
+1
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IGMFU is not a basis for a country or a society.
VERY TRUE However, I have just seen too many people that are not as driven to work hard for the things they want, rather just have it the easy way; unfortunately that is rarely the case. It just seems to me that many now-a-days want the MTV Cribs house, Loaded luxury car, and rock star lifestyle. SO the invest their time in sports and music (which are very worth while endeavors IMHO and a butt-load more fun) and when things don't pan out, and they failed to have a back up plan (education) they expect society to "help a neighbor out" because they were "not as fortunate" as others. We can't all be millionaires

To that i say FU. football is great, Basketball is awesome, plating in a band RAWKS smoking pot instead of studying is way more fun. But have a fall back and don't expect me to "help you out" because you failed to reach your dreams.
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      10-06-2009, 07:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MP0WER View Post
I saw a bumper sticker that left me somewhat perplexed. it was on the back of a brand new Toyota SUV, not sure which one, bigger than a 4Runner though, but not the Land Cruiser. Anyhow, there were several stickers. 3 of them very obvious... 2 obama stickers, one "Yes We DID" sticker. the one I wasn't sure of read "Too Poor to Vote Republican" i don't quite get it, so i figured i'd ask the political heavyweights in the forum to fill me in.
Another great example of "do what I say not what I do". It's great for them to bash Republicans about being rich, but let's look at what they are driving.

A NEW Toyota- not fuel efficient (compared to a smaller CUV/SUV), Asian company, made by non-union workers (could not verify).

It's very easy for these types to put on a bumber sticker and feel good about themselves, without checking the facts.

Hey that's kinda like their Dear Leader, isn't it!

Look, I don't care what they drive, I drive a German car made in Germany, I am for the free market. But this type of hippocrisy is rampant in the Democrat community. Yeh, I know the R's have some of that too, but in casual observation it's more common with the D's.

LOL, a couple weeks ago I saw a TOTAL POS on the road, likely not safe to drive, and you know it, it was plastered with Dem stickers. Yep, their ideas for Illinois were really working for that guy.
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      10-06-2009, 09:12 AM   #18
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I could also support the Fair Tax if the 16th Amendment to the Constitution were repealed and income tax were permanently abolished.
That unfortunately is the rub -- the FairTax is weak w/o a repeal of the 16th Amendment. And as much as I like to hope that someday the politicians in this country would do what's right for the people, I highly doubt they would get rid of what is probably the biggest stick they have when campaigning -- the idea that they will be better for taxes that their opponent. ::
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      10-06-2009, 11:45 AM   #19
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Pretty obvious message, I'm not sure what's confusing here. Republican policies rarely aim to further the interests of the poor and middle-class voters. Economics is based around rational behavior, you make descisions that are most beneficial to you. If people voted only based on policies, and how they affect their personal finances and well-being, Democrats would win with 90% every election. However, they let Republicans drag them into the realm of Reagan-humping, figuring out whose imagined friend is better, and why gays aren't welcome in this country.

That's cool, obviously won that fight too.
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      10-06-2009, 01:35 PM   #20
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I just figured the bumper sticker is referring to the Repubs being against welfare and Dems being for. Maybe the SUV owner is on welfare.
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      10-06-2009, 01:41 PM   #21
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