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      08-18-2009, 06:21 PM   #23
von_zoom
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attila

If your car is still under warranty, and I assume that it is, it might be interesting if you took it in for service and see what BMW sez. BMW harps that the car is made for driving, has a history based on race heritage, tests the M3 to the limit at the Nordschleife, and is forever hanging its reputation on the ultimate driving machine. The next time I am at the track, and it will be VIR, if the thing decorates my engine compartment with power steering fluid, you can make book I will not clean it up and that the car will back at the dealer. The fact that the Performance Center is aware of the problem, then one can assume that BMW knows of the issue.
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      08-18-2009, 09:10 PM   #24
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Thanks VZ!
So far I tried to avoid any claim or confrontation with my dealer, mainly because of my mods. But this is a recurring issue now.
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      08-18-2009, 11:15 PM   #25
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Someone at the track mentioned that a popular fix to this problem on other cars is a to drive a small tube in the vent hole of the PS reservoir cap that empties into a bottle attached in the engine bay.

Anyone has tried that? That sounds like a great solution. I wonder if a simple kit already exists. If not, someone should make one.
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      08-19-2009, 08:59 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchBoy View Post
Someone at the track mentioned that a popular fix to this problem on other cars is a to drive a small tube in the vent hole of the PS reservoir cap that empties into a bottle attached in the engine bay.

Anyone has tried that? That sounds like a great solution. I wonder if a simple kit already exists. If not, someone should make one.

This sounds like a good idea, can be made at home! However the best would be, short of designing it correctly from the beginning, is to add a heat shield. And add it by BMWNA as a routine recall.
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      08-19-2009, 09:33 AM   #27
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[QUOTE add a heat shield][/quote]

That is one direction to follow, however, are you sure that it is heat related? Most likely it is, causing the pressure to build, then out the cap. No matter which, it is a BMW problem, not yours, and if heat is the problem, whats to say that long term, under normal but sprited driving, heat continues to attack the power steering, and that parts in the system will not eventually fail. We paid a lot of money for this machine. I expect it to function properly.
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      08-19-2009, 10:18 AM   #28
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I assume it is heat related. Never happened outside the track, however I do not check my enginebay after a regular day of commuting.
The worst spill happened when the outside temp was over 92-94 and oil temp was higher than normal on track. My oil tem rarely goes above the third mark on a track which is I think about 260 and stays around the middle with normal driving. On the occasion I had the heavy spill oil temp was higher than the third mark. Anyway, I had mild spills with regular track driving. Since several people reported this issue, BMW aware of it, I thought for a while they will address it soon. Pluss I had mild spills. But now I am concern about potential damage to PS parts etc.
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      09-20-2009, 09:48 PM   #29
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I have actually now completely lost my power steering at a local autox today. Its been a slow process that began with overflow, then the pump would begin to make noise once hot and finally failure. I plan on bringing it into the dealer, but the car just feels unreal at speed with no power steering.
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      09-21-2009, 07:06 AM   #30
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TunedM3
Sorry to hear of your problem, and this is the very thing that I have feared every since this topic came up. I hope that you will post what occured when you returned your car for service. Good luck.
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      09-21-2009, 10:01 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
TunedM3
Sorry to hear of your problem, and this is the very thing that I have feared every since this topic came up. I hope that you will post what occured when you returned your car for service. Good luck.
vz
This happened to several cars at VIR in May, total failure. I was told that the heat from the exhaust overheats the pump and ultimately can melt some of the plastic internals of the pump, requiring pump replacement. The spewing fluid is just a symptom caused by the extra heat in the pump.

I'm curious, how many autocross laps did it take before the symptoms started and then failed. Was the spewing a problem at past autocrosses. I'm not having any troubles, but our AXs are much cooler here in Colorado and may not strain the system as much.

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      09-21-2009, 10:16 AM   #32
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I did loose some fluid again last time on the track. I am getting nervous about this PS fluid issue more and more. I am plannig one more track session this year, but I need a fix for next year. My initial heat shield - piece of an old window sun blocker - needs some revison and better fixation. ( I have not used on the track, since it moved a little during everyday driving)
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      09-21-2009, 10:28 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attila View Post
I did loose some fluid again last time on the track. I am getting nervous about this PS fluid issue more and more. I am plannig one more track session this year, but I need a fix for next year. My initial heat shield - piece of an old window sun blocker - needs some revison and better fixation. ( I have not used on the track, since it moved a little during everyday driving)
I think you've got the right idea, but probably need a thicker piece of aluminum or ceramic/aluminum sandwich for the best fix. I find it hard to believe that no one's making a performance mod for this. common problem.

Anyone reading got a 2010 M3? I'm curious if BMW added a heat shield yet. It'd be sooo easy for them to fix this.

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      09-21-2009, 04:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Driver View Post
Ditto here, and the steering is not affected. OP, save yourself the hassel and let it go. Clean up the mess and check it next time. You'll likley be spill free. But should hte issue return (i.e. - somebody tops off the steering fluid), wrap some of that cheap high-temp heat blanket material around the steering box or install some exhaust header wrap. Problem solved. Finally, I believe somebody on this forum was working with a manufacturer on an aftermarket shield we could purchase. We'll see.
+1

ButtonWillow last weekend, temp was 105F

Mine overflowed a little after the first session, I cleaned it up, tightened the cap a few degrees and that was the end of it.

Couple of other M3's had the same issue and same resolution.
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      09-21-2009, 04:22 PM   #35
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I think the power-steering pump is right next to the heads, while the reseviour is pretty far away from the engine.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      09-21-2009, 04:28 PM   #36
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Some would think you boil the fluid, loose some and then you have enough space for the fluid to expand and you will not experience the spill again. But I had it multiple times!! At least 4 occasions. One was really bad, but I got it after again. I wonder how much fluid still have there?
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      09-21-2009, 06:52 PM   #37
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Boy this really "boils me over" too. I have only tracked my E92 one time, and that was at about 70 percent, and I used a cut towel tie wraped around the cap reservoir to prevent the fluid from spraying on the engine. I only experienced a small amount of fluid loss during my session. NOW, when I track my car for real, 100 percent balls to the wall, I fear what might happen. I sure hope that you all will continue to post the results of your actions, and what if any thing BMW does to correct the situation.
Thanks in advance.
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      09-21-2009, 07:05 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attila View Post
Some would think you boil the fluid, loose some and then you have enough space for the fluid to expand and you will not experience the spill again. But I had it multiple times!! At least 4 occasions. One was really bad, but I got it after again. I wonder how much fluid still have there?
The boiling and spilling is annoying, but the potential damage to the pump is much more worrysome. I'd try to develop some sort of heat shield if I were having this trouble.

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      09-21-2009, 09:45 PM   #39
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I will be bringing the car in on Wed to see what the story is. I think this is a problem that has slowly made its presence known. I have had the car for a year and have about 14k miles on it. It would boil over alot at autox and track events(even at times on the street), but at the last autox I began to hear a whine from the power steering after a run. Once the car cooled down it went away. This time I heard the whine after my first run and then by the end of the second run the whine was gone and so was the steering.
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      09-22-2009, 08:53 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TUNEDM3 View Post
I will be bringing the car in on Wed to see what the story is. I think this is a problem that has slowly made its presence known. I have had the car for a year and have about 14k miles on it. It would boil over alot at autox and track events(even at times on the street), but at the last autox I began to hear a whine from the power steering after a run. Once the car cooled down it went away. This time I heard the whine after my first run and then by the end of the second run the whine was gone and so was the steering.
Reading your post, and just realized that the noise I experienced multiple times at the end of some really hard sessions may not be the front tires picking up lots of rubber on the track, but the PS itself.

I had some whining, murmuring noise coming form the front when I was in a thight turn at the end of the sessions. I asumed I had slight imbalance of the front wheels due to lots of rubber deposition picked up on the track. But your post makes me rethink my theory. Mainly because as you said the whole scenario changed after the car cooled down. I bet it is PS overheated.
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      09-22-2009, 09:15 AM   #41
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Quote:
I will be bringing the car in on Wed to see what the story is.

[QUOTEI had some whining, murmuring noise coming form the front when I was in a thight turn at the end of the sessions.][/quote]

I sure hope you guys will keep us updated, and in MHO, BMW should make good on any problem. This is not right.
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      09-22-2009, 08:39 PM   #42
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I have a suspicion, that BMW knows about this issue. And I guess they will not do anything about it. We are the minority of M3 drivers here. I estimate about 10-15% of all M3 drivers are on M3post.com, and even here maybe 20% tracks their car regularly. That's 2-3% overall.
What we could do, to ask AA or any other tuner to develop a kit heat shield. I would be happy to pay $100-200 to have this fixed. Also would happily pay for the break cooling ducts (but not $600!!! just for intake without plates, ducts etc.)
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      09-22-2009, 08:50 PM   #43
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I have a suspicion, that BMW knows about this issue. And I guess they will not do anything about it. We are the minority of M3 drivers here. I estimate about 10-15% of all M3 drivers are on M3post.com, and even here maybe 20% tracks their car regularly. That's 2-3% overall.
What we could do, to ask AA or any other tuner to develop a kit heat shield. I would be happy to pay $100-200 to have this fixed. Also would happily pay for the break cooling ducts (but not $600!!! just for intake without plates, ducts etc.)
I agree. I'm certain that BMW knows the issue and I doubt they'll fix it given the small impact on just a few of us. If it's going to get fixed, it'll be some race shop or mod shop. I think the market is pretty small, but development cost will be pretty small.

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      09-23-2009, 01:38 AM   #44
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In this pic, isn't the power steering pump right next to the head on the left side of the pic (right side of the engine)?

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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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