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      09-18-2009, 01:32 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
Their intent is to use violence to alter lawful behavior. [...] That is terrorism, not vandalism.
So, is mugging an act of terrorism? [...]
Muggers are mugging people for money, not to change their behavior.
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      09-18-2009, 01:42 PM   #68
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So, is mugging an act of terrorism? How about the Boston Tea Party, or the American revolution in general?

The word "terror" means to frighten, so terrorism must be to try to affect policy changes by means of terror. I just don't find vandalism terrifying...infuriating maybe...but terrifying? I really need to have a threat to life & limb of either me or my friends and family to feel terrified. Therefore, I'd only consider vandalism terrorism when it destorys one's means of surviving...like cutting someone's brake lines, or burning a crop in an area with no "safety net" where it'll guarantee starvation. Do you find vandalism terrifying? Why or why not?

This is a highly debatable issue, but after the Patriot act, when the president can arbitrarily label anyone a terrorist, it's very important. I don't think we should use too broad a brush when describing "terrorists".
Mugging? I don't know, was the mugger's intent to influence my behavior through intimidation, violence, or coercion? Or did he just want my money?

Dangerous, violent activities meant to alter lawful behavior is terrorism. Arson is dangerous and violent behavior, setting off explosives is dangerous and violent behavior. Spray painting some SUVs in a dealer's lot because you think he ripped you off is vandalism. Blowing up those same vehicles because you do not want anymore SUVs sold is terrorism.

What provision of the Patriot Act are you referring to?
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      09-18-2009, 01:50 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
Mugging? I don't know, was the mugger's intent to influence my behavior through intimidation, violence, or coercion? Or did he just want my money?

Dangerous, violent activities meant to alter lawful behavior is terrorism. Arson is dangerous and violent behavior, setting off explosives is dangerous and violent behavior. Spray painting some SUVs in a dealer's lot because you think he ripped you off is vandalism. Blowing up those same vehicles because you do not want anymore SUVs sold is terrorism.

What provision of the Patriot Act are you referring to?
Is your normal behaviour handing out money to strangers on the street, or keeping it to yourself?

I'm not going to argue this point to much. From the current US legal definition, you're right. But, when they go out of their way to do these things at times when nobody will get hurt, I just don't find it terrifying. If you do, I'd like to hear why.

I grew up in a logging area and someone vandalized a bunch of logging equipment one night. Terrorism?

Just for full disclosure, I don't approve of this behaviour. It is extremely counterproductive to their OWN CAUSES, too. I just don't see people getting terrified over this.
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      09-18-2009, 02:33 PM   #70
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Definitions can be difficult. But don't vandals typically just do their vandalism for kicks and leave the scene with no clues if possible? Where a terrorist usually wants you to be able to identify a group/person for the act and to know the reason why as well as to serve as a warning to the victim.

I also have objections to the USA Patriot Act, but concerns for how will we stop terrorism without it.
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