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      09-04-2009, 02:47 PM   #1
kooolaid
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wheels & tires for under $3000, any recommendations?

Only mod I've done on my previous cars until now is lowering springs and tint. For my e93 m3, I am thinking about getting a new set of wheels. I wouldn't have thought about changing 'em if I had oem 19s but I have oem 18s and they look very ugly and it's a b*tch to clean. So I'll sell those ugly wheels and buy a new set.

I am looking for 19s. Any suggestions and recommendations would be very appreciated!
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      09-04-2009, 03:23 PM   #2
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Opt 1:
Cheap but good tires + TPMS will run you 1k. Then you have 2k for wheels. You can get brand new set of CH with that. (good wheels + cheap tire combo)

Opt 2:
You can buy great tires +TPMS for about 1800, then buy cheap but good (enough) wheels like VMR V710 or V713. (great tire + good enough wheel combo)

Opt 3:
Wait a bit till you find a good local OEM 19 FS thread.
OEM 19s are forged and lighter than your OEM 18s. And most likely it will come with great tires (PS2). That would be win win if you asked me.

I went with option 3. Final cost? About 400 total.
Bought under 3k miles OEM 19s for 1800. Sold my under 3k miles OEM 18s for 1500 (but gas: 50, paypal fee and etc: 65)
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      09-04-2009, 04:58 PM   #3
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Call EAS-you can get the 710s or 713s plus tires for under 2k.
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      09-05-2009, 04:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isugoo View Post
Opt 1:
Cheap but good tires + TPMS will run you 1k. Then you have 2k for wheels. You can get brand new set of CH with that. (good wheels + cheap tire combo)

Opt 2:
You can buy great tires +TPMS for about 1800, then buy cheap but good (enough) wheels like VMR V710 or V713. (great tire + good enough wheel combo)

Opt 3:
Wait a bit till you find a good local OEM 19 FS thread.
OEM 19s are forged and lighter than your OEM 18s. And most likely it will come with great tires (PS2). That would be win win if you asked me.

I went with option 3. Final cost? About 400 total.
Bought under 3k miles OEM 19s for 1800. Sold my under 3k miles OEM 18s for 1500 (but gas: 50, paypal fee and etc: 65)
Sounds like you made a sweet deal~! Maybe I should do the same and save $$$ for other mod...thanks!
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      09-05-2009, 04:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335ICoupe View Post
Call EAS-you can get the 710s or 713s plus tires for under 2k.
Yes. I know I have choices like VMR 710, Forgestar F14, or Breyton GTS for under $2000. I wanted to find out if I have any other options if I was to spend $1000 more.
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      09-06-2009, 05:43 AM   #6
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ForgeStar is your best option for the money IMHO. There are also 20" available for the F14 and F10, not sure when the F10 is coming out though.
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      09-06-2009, 06:24 AM   #7
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I am running forgestars now and if I had the choice, I would have gone with another brand.. JUST IMO..
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      09-06-2009, 12:50 PM   #8
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If you like stock 19s, a pristine set (there's at least one for sale right now) for $1,600 to $1,800 would be your best bet by far. And I'm talking both form and function: they're beautiful while being light and strong. Anything comparable in weight/strength will set you back 2 to 3 times that on wheels alone.

Unless you have a big ego that demands you have a different car than everybody else, I'd find ways to individualize your car other than wheels/tires. Take care man.
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      09-06-2009, 02:14 PM   #9
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I really like the Breyton design, not too expensive and they look really hot in black
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      09-06-2009, 03:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r_seng View Post
ForgeStar is your best option for the money IMHO. There are also 20" available for the F14 and F10, not sure when the F10 is coming out though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noxredna View Post
I am running forgestars now and if I had the choice, I would have gone with another brand.. JUST IMO..
There are some issues with the Forgestar wheels. They machine too much from the hub and end up weakening the wheel.
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      09-06-2009, 03:34 PM   #11
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I love how the OEM 18s look, but that's just me
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      09-06-2009, 04:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noxredna View Post
I am running forgestars now and if I had the choice, I would have gone with another brand.. JUST IMO..
Can you expand on this, since I was considering them for a track wheel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crimsone90 View Post
There are some issues with the Forgestar wheels. They machine too much from the hub and end up weakening the wheel.
What's happened to the wheels?


For the OP, I'd consider the OEM 19's and get them painted/powerder coated black. It looks really good, or maybe pick up a set of used wheels here. If you could go to $4000 with wheels/tires, then you'd be talking about some nicer wheels.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      09-06-2009, 09:27 PM   #13
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I, too, would like to hear about this Forgestar issue. I assume you guys have experienced it with 19" wheels, since their 18" wheels aren't available yet. This concerns me because I bought a set of 18" F14s strictly for track use, but am waiting for them to be delivered. Those of you claiming they weaken the wheels, have you actually broken a wheel? If not, how do you know the wheel is jeopardized?
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      09-06-2009, 11:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Driver View Post
I, too, would like to hear about this Forgestar issue. I assume you guys have experienced it with 19" wheels, since their 18" wheels aren't available yet. This concerns me because I bought a set of 18" F14s strictly for track use, but am waiting for them to be delivered. Those of you claiming they weaken the wheels, have you actually broken a wheel? If not, how do you know the wheel is jeopardized?
I highly doubt people are "breaking" wheels.... However, many wheel manufacturers try to shave material to make a lightweight wheel (not just Forgestar) and this does weaken the structure. The result of this is typically wheels getting bent when stress over potholes, bumps, etc...

I find it funny though how many people on these forums talk about lower priced wheels like forgestars getting bent. I know 2 guys that have bent HREs. One was a $10K custom set for a 997turbo, and he bent both rear wheels! Lesson learned, lightweight isn't always good for the street, regardless of how much you pay, forged included.

On the track, lightweight is key, however, you're probably abusing your wheels less on the track than you are in city driving. Im no expert here, but I'd assume this as tracks are typically quite smooth...unless you make it a habit to run off the track regularily...in which case your wheels might be the least of your concerns...
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      09-07-2009, 07:23 AM   #15
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I too believe rough highways and city streets (LA) cause much more stress on the wheels as far as one cracking/bending. I have the lightweight Advan RS (about 3-4lbs lighter than stock per wheel) and so far no signs of damage and I've driven on some very rough roads.
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      09-07-2009, 10:20 AM   #16
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To the last two posters (kmac1980 and MrHarris), thank you for your replies. However, you're mistaken if you think potholes cause anywhere near the stress as track driving. In fact, it's a different kind of stress altogether. The problems you refer to are indications that the rim itslef (outer portion of wheel) is weak. But the claim made above about Forgestar is that they machine too much material off the hub. If this is true, it could spell disaster if a wheel breaks there (you could total your car or yourself!) A wheel breaking at a spoke or hub under cornering loads can instantly break apart. At a minimum, you're looking at damage to the brake components, suspension arm and strut, spring, wheel well liner, and likely fender. This is the scary part of going with a new product from a new company. The sellers of these wheels claim they "make great track wheels", however, that claim is simply unfounded becasue it's never been tested (the wheels haven't even been produced yet). Being one of the first customers, I am essentially becoming a tester. Having learned of problems with the 19" versions, I am now concerned about the 18" versions I ordered. This is why I'd like to hear from those above who claim too much material is shaved off the hub. How do you know? What problems have you seen as a result? I'm not interested in bent rims due to potholes... that is not a concern to me. Like kmac18980 said, tracks are generally smooth. It is common to put a wheel or two off when driving on the limit, but it's expected that performance wheels and tires can take it (this is where the resistance to bumps and potholes might come into play).
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      09-07-2009, 10:29 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Driver View Post
To the last two posters (kmac1980 and MrHarris), thank you for your replies. However, you're mistaken if you think potholes cause anywhere near the stress as track driving. In fact, it's a different kind of stress altogether. The problems you refer to are indications that the rim itslef (outer portion of wheel) is weak. But the claim made above about Forgestar is that they machine too much material off the hub. If this is true, it could spell disaster if a wheel breaks there (you could total your car or yourself!) A wheel breaking at a spoke or hub under cornering loads can instantly break apart. At a minimum, you're looking at damage to the brake components, suspension arm and strut, spring, wheel well liner, and likely fender. This is the scary part of going with a new product from a new company. The sellers of these wheels claim they "make great track wheels", however, that claim is simply unfounded becasue it's never been tested (the wheels haven't even been produced yet). Being one of the first customers, I am essentially becoming a tester. Having learned of problems with the 19" versions, I am now concerned about the 18" versions I ordered. This is why I'd like to hear from those above who claim too much material is shaved off the hub. How do you know? What problems have you seen as a result? I'm not interested in bent rims due to potholes... that is not a concern to me. Like kmac18980 said, tracks are generally smooth. It is common to put a wheel or two off when driving on the limit, but it's expected that performance wheels and tires can take it (this is where the resistance to bumps and potholes might come into play).
Thank You.

Someone is actually paying attention around here. (for a change)

Kudos to M3V8Driver.
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      09-07-2009, 11:18 AM   #18
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Really? so running two wheels off the track is worse than hitting a defined lip pothole in ashphalt (or worse, concrete) at 30mph in the city? I mean I suppose heat is a factor on the track from the brakes? I can understand i you're reffering to running into a wall or something, but i'd think the wheels would be the least of your concerns... I suppose on the track you get a lot more lateral forces exposed to the wheel center, as opposed to vertical forces on the street, i just didn't think they would compare, I mean even if your car pulls 1.1Gs on the skidpad, that wouldnt nearly equate to the weight of your car, plus forward momentum plowing into a pothole. I suppose it's possible though that wheel centers are much strong against their vertical forces than lateral ones?

All I know is I have 2 friends that have bent very expensive wheels in the city, but their dedicated track setup has never experienced any issues.

Keep in mind, I was all along reffering to the wheel barrells, not the centers. I agree it would be scary to know that your wheel centers woudlnt hold up, but like I mentioned before, i havent heard of anyone that has sheared/crack the spokes on their wheel! (which the issue of "shaving" the wheel center pertains to)

I think my point as more to do with that even very expensive wheel manufacturer's products aren't immune to damage (wheel barrells), even some of the manufacturer's that are highly praised on this forum...


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Driver View Post
To the last two posters (kmac1980 and MrHarris), thank you for your replies. However, you're mistaken if you think potholes cause anywhere near the stress as track driving. In fact, it's a different kind of stress altogether. The problems you refer to are indications that the rim itslef (outer portion of wheel) is weak. But the claim made above about Forgestar is that they machine too much material off the hub. If this is true, it could spell disaster if a wheel breaks there (you could total your car or yourself!) A wheel breaking at a spoke or hub under cornering loads can instantly break apart. At a minimum, you're looking at damage to the brake components, suspension arm and strut, spring, wheel well liner, and likely fender. This is the scary part of going with a new product from a new company. The sellers of these wheels claim they "make great track wheels", however, that claim is simply unfounded becasue it's never been tested (the wheels haven't even been produced yet). Being one of the first customers, I am essentially becoming a tester. Having learned of problems with the 19" versions, I am now concerned about the 18" versions I ordered. This is why I'd like to hear from those above who claim too much material is shaved off the hub. How do you know? What problems have you seen as a result? I'm not interested in bent rims due to potholes... that is not a concern to me. Like kmac18980 said, tracks are generally smooth. It is common to put a wheel or two off when driving on the limit, but it's expected that performance wheels and tires can take it (this is where the resistance to bumps and potholes might come into play).
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      09-07-2009, 01:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmac1980 View Post
Really? so running two wheels off the track is worse than hitting a defined lip pothole in ashphalt (or worse, concrete) at 30mph in the city?
Well, actually, yes. If I run a wheel off the track, it's going to be upon exiting a turn, in other words, under high speed and duress... much more so than cruising over a bump or pothole at 30mph. Thre are ruts and bumps off the sides of most tracks. It's just natural where pavement meets soil. But that's neither here nor there, because safety isn't as much of an issue. If a wheel bends, you might lose air, which isn't as serious as a wheel hub shattering.

Quote:
I mean I suppose heat is a factor on the track from the brakes?
Yes, that is another factor that backs up my point about the track-worthiness of a wheel. Wheels are subjected much, much more to stress (lateral and longitutenal), vibration, and heat when tracked.

Quote:
I can understand i you're reffering to running into a wall or something, but i'd think the wheels would be the least of your concerns.
Yeah, ONLY after something goes wrong. The point is to avoid that if possible. Hence my concern about the complaint with the Forgestar wheels.

Quote:
I suppose on the track you get a lot more lateral forces exposed to the wheel center, as opposed to vertical forces on the street, i just didn't think they would compare, I mean even if your car pulls 1.1Gs on the skidpad, that wouldnt nearly equate to the weight of your car, plus forward momentum plowing into a pothole. I suppose it's possible though that wheel centers are much strong against their vertical forces than lateral ones?.
Not all of the wheight of your car is going to be on one wheel at one time. If you know what corner balancing is, then you know there is only a percentage of weight at each corner (sitting still on scales). For the sake of simplicity, let's say an E92 M3 weighs 4000 pounds with driver and fluids topped off. Let's say the car is perfectly balanced with 1000 pounds at each corner, and each mph add a pound of force. If you roll over a speed bump on the street going 20mph, you're talking about 1020 pounds per wheel. If the speed bump is sharp enough, that will likely be enough to bend a weak wheel rim, but do nothing to the hub, because the rim absorbed the blunt of the force when it bent.

Now suppose I'm taking a corner at 1.1g (like you described above) and 90mph. That's 1090x1.1 = 1199 pounds of force on each outside wheel, and at an angle that more stressful to the hub. Now say I put a wheel off and hit a bump while doing so. Imagine the blunt force the wheel is subject to at that moment, going 90mph, pulling 1.1g, then hitting a bump. If the hub can't take it, it's game over. if the rim bends and the tire loses air, there's a good chance I'll be able save it and limp it back to the pits.

Quote:
All I know is I have 2 friends that have bent very expensive wheels in the city, but their dedicated track setup has never experienced any issues.
You're sort of backing me up here, because I am trying to emphasize the importance of wheel integrity for track use. Your two friends are out a pair of wheels, and perhaps some time and trouble of resolving the matter, but their cars didn't get mangled, nor did they get injured.

Quote:
Keep in mind, I was all along reffering to the wheel barrells, not the centers. I agree it would be scary to know that your wheel centers woudlnt hold up, but like I mentioned before, i havent heard of anyone that has sheared/crack the spokes on their wheel! (which the issue of "shaving" the wheel center pertains to)

I think my point as more to do with that even very expensive wheel manufacturer's products aren't immune to damage (wheel barrells), even some of the manufacturer's that are highly praised on this forum.
It was crimsone90 who wrote "There are some issues with the Forgestar wheels. They machine too much from the hub and end up weakening the wheel." Let's see what he and/or others have to say in response.

Regards,
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      09-07-2009, 04:11 PM   #20
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Well said, I agree with you on all points...

However, have you seen (first hand) wheel centers fail catastrophically? That seems like a gross error of design/engineering that should be caught by a regulating body.. (DOT? who regulates manufacturers of wheels?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Driver View Post
Well, actually, yes. If I run a wheel off the track, it's going to be upon exiting a turn, in other words, under high speed and duress... much more so than cruising over a bump or pothole at 30mph. Thre are ruts and bumps off the sides of most tracks. It's just natural where pavement meets soil. But that's neither here nor there, because safety isn't as much of an issue. If a wheel bends, you might lose air, which isn't as serious as a wheel hub shattering.



Yes, that is another factor that backs up my point about the track-worthiness of a wheel. Wheels are subjected much, much more to stress (lateral and longitutenal), vibration, and heat when tracked.



Yeah, ONLY after something goes wrong. The point is to avoid that if possible. Hence my concern about the complaint with the Forgestar wheels.



Not all of the wheight of your car is going to be on one wheel at one time. If you know what corner balancing is, then you know there is only a percentage of weight at each corner (sitting still on scales). For the sake of simplicity, let's say an E92 M3 weighs 4000 pounds with driver and fluids topped off. Let's say the car is perfectly balanced with 1000 pounds at each corner, and each mph add a pound of force. If you roll over a speed bump on the street going 20mph, you're talking about 1020 pounds per wheel. If the speed bump is sharp enough, that will likely be enough to bend a weak wheel rim, but do nothing to the hub, because the rim absorbed the blunt of the force when it bent.

Now suppose I'm taking a corner at 1.1g (like you described above) and 90mph. That's 1090x1.1 = 1199 pounds of force on each outside wheel, and at an angle that more stressful to the hub. Now say I put a wheel off and hit a bump while doing so. Imagine the blunt force the wheel is subject to at that moment, going 90mph, pulling 1.1g, then hitting a bump. If the hub can't take it, it's game over. if the rim bends and the tire loses air, there's a good chance I'll be able save it and limp it back to the pits.



You're sort of backing me up here, because I am trying to emphasize the importance of wheel integrity for track use. Your two friends are out a pair of wheels, and perhaps some time and trouble of resolving the matter, but their cars didn't get mangled, nor did they get injured.



It was crimsone90 who wrote "There are some issues with the Forgestar wheels. They machine too much from the hub and end up weakening the wheel." Let's see what he and/or others have to say in response.

Regards,
Dale
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      09-07-2009, 08:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmac1980 View Post
...have you seen (first hand) wheel centers fail catastrophically? That seems like a gross error of design/engineering that should be caught by a regulating body.. (DOT? who regulates manufacturers of wheels?)
Yes, numerous times. In the 90's on a c4 Vette, same guy years later in a TT Supra, another time with a 1994 RX-7, and those were just track days. That doesn't count the times I've seen it happen at professional races. It seems to happen most in heavier cars, which our E9x M3s are! Unfortunately, I've never heard of a regulation for wheel construction in particular. It's just the competition and reputation that keeps them good enough. However, there are regulations for manufacturing processes, which might help (kind of like how the FDA regulates the food and drug industries... every now and then, some deseased or tainted consumables get through the cracks - mad cow disease, hepatitus, salmonella, etc.)
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      09-07-2009, 09:40 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
If you like stock 19s, a pristine set (there's at least one for sale right now) for $1,600 to $1,800 would be your best bet by far. And I'm talking both form and function: they're beautiful while being light and strong. Anything comparable in weight/strength will set you back 2 to 3 times that on wheels alone.

Unless you have a big ego that demands you have a different car than everybody else, I'd find ways to individualize your car other than wheels/tires. Take care man.
thanks. I'll keep it in mind

Quote:
Originally Posted by r_seng View Post
ForgeStar is your best option for the money IMHO. There are also 20" available for the F14 and F10, not sure when the F10 is coming out though.
I'm not into forgestar. I prefer VMR 710 or Breyton GTS over Forgestar. Thanks though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by noxredna View Post
I am running forgestars now and if I had the choice, I would have gone with another brand.. JUST IMO..
Thanks for your opinion!
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