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      08-05-2009, 06:20 AM   #1
MTurhee
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Dealer might have lied?

I just purchased a 08 m3 with very low miles for what I think is a good price. I asked the dealer more than once if the car has had any body work or been in an accident of any sort and they said no. The car looked fine, all body pieces seem to line up well however I just noticed a little bit of paint overspray on the top half of one of the exhaust tips and a little bit on the tip next to it while washing my car, none on the other 2 tips though. I also purchased IND painted reflectors because board members say the paint matches well but I found it to be a little bit darker. Can a body shop tell if a car has been in an accident or if any body part has been repainted? And if so, was the dealer legally responsible to tell me about this?

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      08-05-2009, 06:27 AM   #2
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The dealer has no obligation to disclose if minor body work has been done.

Buyer Beware.
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      08-05-2009, 06:32 AM   #3
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I don't care that much if a small area has been repainted due to minor damage, I'm just worried the car had more serious body damage that I'm unaware of. I wish insurance would report these things to carfax.
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      08-05-2009, 06:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpineweissM3 View Post
The dealer has no obligation to disclose if minor body work has been done.

Buyer Beware.
Who told you that?

I asked my dealer if my car incurred any damge in treansit and my dealer told me that if my car had any damage they had to disclose that by law.

All in the state of Maryland...
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      08-05-2009, 06:59 AM   #5
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OK, here's another Maryland data-point. I bought a year-old, 7K mi. car (RS4) from Carmax in Laurel, MD, since they were hard to find at the time, and it was a reasonable deal. I obviously asked for the Carfax, and for a disclosure of any previous damage, both of which indicated no previous damage, and one previous owner.

When I got the car under good shop lights, there was also light over-spray, around areas where the bumper had been re-shot. It was minor, and I elected to keep it because it was a good paint job, and it was easily corrected with a light wet-sand. It depends upon where the damage occurred and how well it was repaired.

Used cars are different than new with regard to disclosure requirements, but it does depend upon the laws of a particular state.
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      08-05-2009, 10:07 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpineweissM3 View Post
The dealer has no obligation to disclose if minor body work has been done.

Buyer Beware.
The dealer must disclose any work that has been done to the car, any damage must be reported to the potential buyer
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      08-05-2009, 10:15 AM   #7
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Can a body shop tell if a body panel has been repainted?
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      08-05-2009, 10:18 AM   #8
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Have you taken your car to a bmw dealer for them to read the key? I took mine in and he said there was a touch up done from factory on the front of my car.

Just look under the car and see if anything doesn't line up or if you can see bends in the sub frame. Might have just touched up the rear from scrapes from golf bags or something.
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      08-05-2009, 10:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTurhee View Post
Can a body shop tell if a body panel has been repainted?
yes. they can measure the thickness of the paint and clear coat to tell whether it differs from the coat that came at the factory.
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      08-05-2009, 11:09 AM   #10
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Sometimes, dealers just dont know. The best thing you guys can do is buy a paint meter and measure it yourself.
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      08-05-2009, 12:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpineweissM3 View Post
The dealer has no obligation to disclose if minor body work has been done.

Buyer Beware.
If he asks they have to disclose.
That's what the buyer beware bit is. Buyer asks they have to tell. Buyer doesn't ask and it's different.
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      08-05-2009, 01:17 PM   #12
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imho, no matter who you buy a used car from or what the car looks like or what the PO tells you, you should always do a complete ppi and paint meter check.

CarFax is relatively meaningless.

Caveat emptor on anything you buy. Dealer or no dealer. CPO or no CPO. Cars or whatever.
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      08-05-2009, 01:35 PM   #13
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There is a paint meter, a hand-held device that will read the 'thickness' of the paint on the car. Dealers usually have this themselves, when they check a car in for trade evaluation. When using the paint meter, you want to make sure the reading is consistent on all body panels of the car; if a car was re-painted, the level will be higher on that re-painted panel then the original painted panels. Unfortunately it does not work on rubber/poly panels like what most cars have for bumpers these days.

To answer your other question, a paint body shop will know immediately if something is re-painted on the car. They are good at just looking at the panels.
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      08-05-2009, 02:21 PM   #14
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If I'm not mistaken, they can perform paint repairs required due to transit damage at the port of entry.
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      08-05-2009, 02:48 PM   #15
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If I'm not mistaken, they can perform paint repairs required due to transit damage at the port of entry.
In Maryland the dealer must tell you.
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      08-05-2009, 03:30 PM   #16
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After some close inspection, there are some panels where it looks like pieces of dust or something simliar sized was painted over or there were some small chunks in the paint. Additionally I found that the door is rubbing against the fender on both the passenger and driver sides. Is this normal? I've attached 2 photos of this.
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      08-05-2009, 03:43 PM   #17
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Yeah that doesnt look right, i would definitely get that checked out.
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      08-05-2009, 03:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post
Sometimes, dealers just dont know. The best thing you guys can do is buy a paint meter and measure it yourself.
That is correct. The OP said the car was an 08 with low miles, so he must have bought it used. If the original owner had body work or paint work done, the selling dealer might not know about it. In North Carolina, the owner only has to disclose body repair work that exceeds a certain value of the cars worth. If it was minor work, the original owner may not have been required to legally report it when he sold or traded the car. Who knows where the dealer got the car. Could have been at auction. Unfortunately when you buy used, it is buyer beware.

Those pictures along with your description appear to indicate the car has definitley been painted, and most likely damaged.
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      08-05-2009, 03:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTurhee View Post
I just purchased a 08 m3 with very low miles for what I think is a good price. I asked the dealer more than once if the car has had any body work or been in an accident of any sort and they said no. The car looked fine, all body pieces seem to line up well however I just noticed a little bit of paint overspray on the top half of one of the exhaust tips and a little bit on the tip next to it while washing my car, none on the other 2 tips though. I also purchased IND painted reflectors because board members say the paint matches well but I found it to be a little bit darker. Can a body shop tell if a car has been in an accident or if any body part has been repainted? And if so, was the dealer legally responsible to tell me about this?
I thought you said the body pieces seem to line up. I would def get that checked out. When you open your hood does anything seem out of alignment around the edge of the car. Ie where the radiator is, headlight housings, nothing painted with overspray or re-conditioned. Check some of the gaps between the panels to see if there is over spray in them also.
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      08-05-2009, 03:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTurhee View Post
After some close inspection, there are some panels where it looks like pieces of dust or something simliar sized was painted over or there were some small chunks in the paint. Additionally I found that the door is rubbing against the fender on both the passenger and driver sides. Is this normal? I've attached 2 photos of this.
Even in these pictures you can see in the first one that the gap goes from almost touching to normal. Good luck and I hope it wasn't too major.
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      08-05-2009, 08:46 PM   #21
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That is correct. The OP said the car was an 08 with low miles, so he must have bought it used. If the original owner had body work or paint work done, the selling dealer might not know about it. In North Carolina, the owner only has to disclose body repair work that exceeds a certain value of the cars worth. If it was minor work, the original owner may not have been required to legally report it when he sold or traded the car. Who knows where the dealer got the car. Could have been at auction. Unfortunately when you buy used, it is buyer beware.

Those pictures along with your description appear to indicate the car has definitley been painted, and most likely damaged.

The car was originally purchased at the same dealer that it was sold back to. Wouldn't the dealer at least take out a paint meter to check if a car has been repainted prior to taking the trade in or buying back the car? My local bmw dealer did that when I wanted to trade in my old car a few years ago.
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      08-05-2009, 08:53 PM   #22
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The dealer must disclose any work that has been done to the car, any damage must be reported to the potential buyer
Not on a used car they don't. As I read it, the op bought a used car.
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