BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (ALMS, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..)
 
VF Engineering
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-30-2009, 01:24 AM   #67
autoyuri
New Member
 
Drives: 120i
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The World

Posts: 6
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via ICQ to autoyuri
I am very, very, very disappointed!((
autoyuri is offline   Russian Federation
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 06:32 AM   #68
TSM330i
2006 330i, TSM, Black, manual, sport
 
TSM330i's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 330i, E86 Z4 3.0si
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester Springs, PA

Posts: 3,038
iTrader: (2)

I figured something was up. It's obvious they're not developing the car as it slides to the back of the grid. It's estimated that F1 cars are 2 seconds faster at the end of the season vs. the beginning due to in season development.
This sucks!
__________________
2006 330i, TSM, Black, Sport, JIC Cross Coil-Overs, UUC Sways, 18" Advan RS, Mich PSS 255/265, BMW Electric Steering Wheel, Rogue shifter, M-Tech front, CF emblems, Dinan TB, Intake, exhaust, strut bar, Stoptech BBK, LSD, M3 susp., LUX 5, CF Hood and CSL, Sparco Seats, AA tune, CF Roof
TSM330i is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 06:47 AM   #69
wakedaze
Private
 
Drives: BMW X5 xDrive 5.0i
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Northeast

Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)

BMW. Stop trying to be Toyota by wasting R&D, development time and production money building micro-niche vehicles that NO ONE really wants. Get back to the business of building the "ultimate driving machine" and demonstrate your prowess through racing.
wakedaze is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 07:19 AM   #70
CoolToolGuy
1er Happy Camper!
 
CoolToolGuy's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 135i,'07 X3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Maryland USA

Posts: 474
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M2381 View Post
BMW is slowing losing my loyalty.

M SUVs and now this shit?

Yes they had to cut their losses, but BMW is always talking about passion and racing but simply quit when they don't do well in F1?

IF their next M cars are shit then I'm jumping to porsche
If you must - but Porsche quit factory racing at LeMans and used the money to develop the Cayenne (an SUV, in case you weren't aware), and now the new four-door Panamera. I don't really see a difference. . .

Have Fun,
Rick
__________________
2009 135i (E82) Space Gray; Gray Leather; Steptronic w/paddles; Premium; Sport; CA - Dinan: Stage 2 ECU; Cold Air Intake; Oil Cooler; Susp. bushings; Strut Brace. - BMWPerf: Suspension; rotors front & rear; exhaust; grilles; sideskirts; trunk spoiler. BMW 261M wheels w/Sumitomo HTR ZIII. - Quaife: LSD. - Custom Graphics.
2007 X3 - 2002 Pontiac Montana
CoolToolGuy is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 08:40 AM   #71
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
 
E90SLAM's Avatar
 
Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

Posts: 61,048
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2006 330i  [4.67]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolToolGuy View Post
If you must - but Porsche quit factory racing at LeMans and used the money to develop the Cayenne (an SUV, in case you weren't aware), and now the new four-door Panamera. I don't really see a difference. . .

Have Fun,
Rick
and then the Porsche Company will be bought by VW...or some Chinese company as I heard from somewhere couple weeks ago!!!
__________________
E90SLAM is offline   Hong Kong
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 08:58 AM   #72
K1M2
New Member
 
K1M2's Avatar
 
Drives: 128i, 325ic, 325ix, 2002Tii,M2
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sandy, Utah

Posts: 28
iTrader: (0)

Hey BMW,
The Hell with F1, DTM baby DTM!
Let's kick some Merc. and VW (AUDI) Arse in DTM.
K1M2
1970 1602, M2 (Track).
1974 2002Tii (Show)
1989 325ix (Winter)
1991 325ic (Summer)
2008 128i (Daily)
Attached Images
 
K1M2 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 09:00 AM   #73
Montoya
Lieutenant
 
Montoya's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Portland

Posts: 573
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue2fire View Post
Porshuh the car company is to become a subsidiary of VW but Porshuh the holding company retains majority ownership of VW itself.

This deal is only to get rid of the massive tab they'd run up trying to acquire 75% of VW (the percent at which German law says that you can declare it a subsidiary).
When your debt exceeds your assets that defines bankruptcy. At this point the debt is so huge they have to merge with VW to viable. Without VW's cash they would be looking at a restructure.

EDIT: Today's WSJ: Porsche takes a 7.1 Billion Dollar hit on VW option sales. "Porsche now is in talks to be effectively taken over by VW"
__________________

'08 E92 IB, Gone
'10 GT3 now in my garage!
'10 X5 3.5D
'12 E91 Xi Wagon MT sports package

Last edited by Montoya; 07-30-2009 at 09:35 AM.
Montoya is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 09:27 AM   #74
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
 
E90SLAM's Avatar
 
Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

Posts: 61,048
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2006 330i  [4.67]
Quote:
Originally Posted by K1M2 View Post
Hey BMW,
The Hell with F1, DTM baby DTM!
Let's kick some Merc. and VW (AUDI) Arse in DTM.
K1M2
1970 1602, M2 (Track).
1974 2002Tii (Show)
1989 325ix (Winter)
1991 325ic (Summer)
2008 128i (Daily)

I still don't see how BMW will be the leading brand in motorsport or any passion in it to just give up the motorsport categories that they are unable to excel and win.

And Merc engine just lead Lewis Hamilton to WDC last year. and 6/9 races this year in Brawn GP. MB engine whopped BMW this season. Even a Renault powered RBR too!
__________________
E90SLAM is offline   Hong Kong
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 10:14 AM   #75
K1M2
New Member
 
K1M2's Avatar
 
Drives: 128i, 325ic, 325ix, 2002Tii,M2
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sandy, Utah

Posts: 28
iTrader: (0)

"I still don't see how BMW will be the leading brand in motorsport or any passion in it to just give up the motorsport categories that they are unable to excel and win."

%100 with you on that one.

"And Merc. engine just lead Lewis Hamilton to WDC last year. and 6/9 races this year in Brawn GP. MB engine whopped BMW this season. Even a Renault powered RBR too! "

McLaren finally being able to put the power down by figuring out the nose Aerodynamics on Hamiltonís car has nothing to do with their Motor. This whole problem with Ferrari, BMW Sauber and McLaren Mercedes it's been the body Aerodynamics problem, not a power issue. They just canít put the power down.

K1M2
1970 1602, M2 (Track).
1974 2002Tii (Show)
1989 325ix (Winter)
1991 325ic (Summer)
2008 128i (Daily)
K1M2 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 10:52 AM   #76
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
 
E90SLAM's Avatar
 
Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

Posts: 61,048
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2006 330i  [4.67]
Quote:
Originally Posted by K1M2 View Post
"I still don't see how BMW will be the leading brand in motorsport or any passion in it to just give up the motorsport categories that they are unable to excel and win."

%100 with you on that one.

"And Merc. engine just lead Lewis Hamilton to WDC last year. and 6/9 races this year in Brawn GP. MB engine whopped BMW this season. Even a Renault powered RBR too! "

McLaren finally being able to put the power down by figuring out the nose Aerodynamics on Hamilton’s car has nothing to do with their Motor. This whole problem with Ferrari, BMW Sauber and McLaren Mercedes it's been the body Aerodynamics problem, not a power issue. They just can’t put the power down.
I agree with you on that one, Ferrari and MB Formula 1 engines now are so reliable (except the batch last year with a cam-shaft not up to task with ferrari)....and the output of all engines are similar....
its all down to the entire package the car can deliver, the chassis, aero parts, driver, fuel loads, tyre useage and management....etc....

I think the problem with them now its the car itself, the chassis might not be refined to suit the dramatic loss of downforce at the rear and in contrast, too much downforce in the front, an unbalanced car means slow in F1....
a well designed chassis and aero parts (Brawn and Red Bull) can compensate these issues, however, they don't have the weight of KERS....
__________________
E90SLAM is offline   Hong Kong
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 11:10 AM   #77
beemah
Captain
 
Drives: Porsche Cayman S
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CT

Posts: 612
iTrader: (0)

they did never sign

Fernando Alonso

Thats pretty much when i stopped buying BMWs or paying attention to the BMW team

The car might be great, but you have to get a driver to make it a winner

and you dont feel like buying a car that a winner does not drive
beemah is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 01:45 PM   #78
gshb
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: slow
Join Date: May 2006
Location: LA

Posts: 363
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by beemah View Post
Fernando Alonso

Thats pretty much when i stopped buying BMWs or paying attention to the BMW team

The car might be great, but you have to get a driver to make it a winner

and you dont feel like buying a car that a winner does not drive
+1. writing has been on the wall for a while now. i laugh when people hate on toyota for not winning races in F1 and for not building sport cars. not thats its not true, but that BMW is just the same. actually, with this news they are worse. BMW are quitters. but thats ok, the target demographic doesnt care about ultimate driving anyway. those who do are either stuck in the past or driving the real deal from another brand.
gshb is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 02:23 PM   #79
josephr25
Major
 
Drives: 2008 E92 335i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Irvine, CA

Posts: 1,458
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by gshb View Post
+1. writing has been on the wall for a while now. i laugh when people hate on toyota for not winning races in F1 and for not building sport cars. not thats its not true, but that BMW is just the same. actually, with this news they are worse. BMW are quitters. but thats ok, the target demographic doesnt care about ultimate driving anyway. those who do are either stuck in the past or driving the real deal from another brand.
BMW also took the easy way in acquiring an experienced team as opposed to Toyota.

I could care less about BMW in F1. F1 is hype nowadays. I hope their involvement in the ALMS will bring us better road cars.
__________________
"Yeah; well, my interior is better."
josephr25 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 02:53 PM   #80
FStop7
I like cars
 
FStop7's Avatar
 
Drives: M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Newbury Park, CA

Posts: 5,059
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by K1M2 View Post
Hey BMW,
The Hell with F1, DTM baby DTM!
Let's kick some Merc. and VW (AUDI) Arse in DTM.
K1M2
1970 1602, M2 (Track).
1974 2002Tii (Show)
1989 325ix (Winter)
1991 325ic (Summer)
2008 128i (Daily)
BMW hasn't raced in DTM in years.
__________________
FStop7 is offline   Vatican City State
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 03:36 PM   #81
K1M2
New Member
 
K1M2's Avatar
 
Drives: 128i, 325ic, 325ix, 2002Tii,M2
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sandy, Utah

Posts: 28
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
BMW hasn't raced in DTM in years.
Exactly my point, they need to get back in it.


K1M2
1970 1602, M2 (Track).
1974 2002Tii (Show)
1989 325ix (Winter)
1991 325ic (Summer)
2008 128i (Daily)
K1M2 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 03:59 PM   #82
KonigsTiger
Racying Dynamics
 
KonigsTiger's Avatar
 
Drives: E92M3 RS46 Club Sport, others
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dweller

Posts: 4,398
iTrader: (0)

Makes sense to me, they suck ass!!!!!!
__________________
==================================================
KonigsTiger is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 07:03 PM   #83
1BMW4fun
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 12 X3 2.8, 11 550
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CA

Posts: 252
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by K1M2 View Post
Exactly my point, they need to get back in it.


K1M2
1970 1602, M2 (Track).
1974 2002Tii (Show)
1989 325ix (Winter)
1991 325ic (Summer)
2008 128i (Daily)
Its like saying "I can't win racing a motor bike, so I got to get back to racing bicycle"
1BMW4fun is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-30-2009, 09:30 PM   #84
teagueAMX
Colonel
 
teagueAMX's Avatar
 
Drives: Some are road worthy
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: So Cal, USA

Posts: 2,086
iTrader: (0)

It's funny watching that vid and they talk about their heritage of history of racing, and passion - sounds like a bunch of marketing hype now.

In a lot of ways, BMW's management style reminds me of General Motors Corp years ago. For a while they poured everything into factory sponsorship of racing - made a big splash - it's a our passion, our love. After a couple of years they were getting they asses kicked pretty bad and didn't manage to capitalize the marketing $'s. So, they picked up their toys went home.

In one since with the world economy in the tank, it shouldn't be a big surprise. Blowing how many millions every year with little to show for it. Some of their "M" marketing decisions sound a lot like GM board room marketing hype and politics. Instead of the "M" really meaning something, it a plaything to make a buck. Makes one question if racing and performance is really in BMW's blood or if it's just a sideline to sell cars.

Ferrari - F1 is no 1, selling cars to consumers is only a sideline to pay for F1.
teagueAMX is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-31-2009, 06:43 AM   #85
CoolToolGuy
1er Happy Camper!
 
CoolToolGuy's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 135i,'07 X3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Maryland USA

Posts: 474
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
Makes one question if racing and performance is really in BMW's blood or if it's just a sideline to sell cars.

Ferrari - F1 is no 1, selling cars to consumers is only a sideline to pay for F1.
IMHO, BMW is in business to sell vehicles (not to race), and they think that racing improves the breed - YMMV.

Just like for individuals, a recession may require companies to make some cutbacks - and the circus that is F1 would probably be among my first choices. If BMW stayed in, they would have to commit (via the Concorde Agreement) to stay in until 2012. I think their money is best spent elsewhere. Again, YMMV.

Porsche quit LeMans to deveiop the Cayenne & Panamera and that, to me, is a form of racing that is closer to the development of street cars than F1. At least BMW has not (yet) pulled out of ALMS and other such series.

But if you think arguing with Bernie and dealing with Max's eccentricities are more important than developing technologies for the future, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. In that case, YMDV.

Have Fun,
Rick
__________________
2009 135i (E82) Space Gray; Gray Leather; Steptronic w/paddles; Premium; Sport; CA - Dinan: Stage 2 ECU; Cold Air Intake; Oil Cooler; Susp. bushings; Strut Brace. - BMWPerf: Suspension; rotors front & rear; exhaust; grilles; sideskirts; trunk spoiler. BMW 261M wheels w/Sumitomo HTR ZIII. - Quaife: LSD. - Custom Graphics.
2007 X3 - 2002 Pontiac Montana
CoolToolGuy is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-31-2009, 03:07 PM   #86
3s-a-charm
Major
 
3s-a-charm's Avatar
 
Drives: 13 E70 X5 3.5i M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Calgary, Canada

Posts: 1,142
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2007 BMW X5  [0.00]
There's going to be a big sale on all the PETRONAS stuff at the local dealerships soon...
__________________

13 X5 xDrive 35i M-Sport Black/Oyster (Hers)
07 X5 4.8i Sport Black/Black (Winter/DD)
03.5 M3 Cabriolet Steel Grey on Black (Summer Fun)
PAST: 08 E92 M3, 08 535xiT, 06 E90 325i, 87 E30 325i, 85 E30 318i
3s-a-charm is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      07-31-2009, 03:17 PM   #87
FStop7
I like cars
 
FStop7's Avatar
 
Drives: M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Newbury Park, CA

Posts: 5,059
iTrader: (3)

BMW is becoming the German version of Honda. Both these companies have very deep motorsport traditions on both 2 and 4 wheels, which they're now backing away from. It's a mistake.
__________________
FStop7 is offline   Vatican City State
0
Reply With Quote
      07-31-2009, 06:05 PM   #88
Formel1
Second Lieutenant
 
Formel1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 BMW 135i
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Winter Park, FL

Posts: 257
iTrader: (1)

Too big...too fast...loosing their roots...it's about the car and trackability....then about car sales...that being said...I still smile when I drive my 135i...
Formel1 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:14 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST