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      07-29-2009, 06:55 AM   #1
Gearhead999s
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Track Day Insurance

How many of you are buying trackday specific insurance?From who and how many events are you commiting to?
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      07-29-2009, 08:27 PM   #2
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i pay around 300 for 55,000 coverage for a 2 day track event. Just purchased a 06 Cayman S not track ins on it will take the hit if something happens. I see accidents in 50% of the track day events, mostly in the advance group.
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      07-29-2009, 09:08 PM   #3
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Would love to know where you get this.
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      07-29-2009, 09:59 PM   #4
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For an annual HPDE policy, check out WSIB:

http://www.wsibinsurance.com/online/de.shtml

I think the rates are 3.5% of the insured value for up to 10 events per year, and 4.0% up to 15 events per year. An event can have multiple days, but the count is per event. This is limited to HPDEs and does not cover open lapping or timed events.

BMW CCA endorses Lockton Affinity for single event HPDE insurance:

http://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/Default.aspx

Also, I am sure this thread will eventually get into the details of what is covered by your regular insurance. We discussed that topic in detail in several threads. Most major insurers have already added exclusion clauses for HPDEs in their policies, so check your insurance policy rather than assuming you are covered. If you are in doubt, initiate written correspondence with your insurance company. If they can't state that you are covered in writing, I would be careful.
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      07-29-2009, 10:46 PM   #5
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This is one of the reasons Track day insurance is a very good idea.Not all incidents are your own doing!

[u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5Lv73WqpU3A&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5Lv73WqpU3A&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]
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      07-29-2009, 11:14 PM   #6
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Another view of the same incident.Way too agressive for a track day IMO.

[u2b]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RBl9KjFW_mA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RBl9KjFW_mA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/u2b]
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      07-30-2009, 01:36 AM   #7
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I purchase my ins through Jacob Katz insurance, out of New York City. www.katzinsurance.com.
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      07-30-2009, 07:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
Another view of the same incident.Way too agressive for a track day IMO.
Different clubs (even chapters) have different tolerances for the level of aggression allowed. When there is open passing in an advanced group, this kind of thing can and does happen I guess. I agree that it seems overly aggressive.

I watched a very similar thing happen in front of me at LRP from my car; one guy was, for whatever reason, seemed determined not to let the faster car that I've just let pass go. It lead to both of them going off track, and I barely avoided them.

Accidents on the track are real--even during HPDEs. They happen for various reasons. Unless you truly don't mind a $60k write-off, track insurance is a good idea IMO.
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      07-30-2009, 11:46 AM   #9
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I am sure this is going to be one of the most interesting threads (subscribed). Thanks everyone for the valuable pointers.

Insurance: I have been a long time customer of e-surance and so far did not have to deal with them at all (no claims). I liked the fact that their exclusion policy did not preclude driver education events... until NOW. Their new policy explicitly excludes liability and collision coverage for non-competition track events. I will try to find a new provider that can cover me. Preferably, I would like to just have one insurance that will cover both street and track. I will share my results.

Track Days: After some 30+ track events in the last 3 years, I have seen a lot of mishaps almost exclusively in the advanced groups. Since I don't want to have to file any claim in the first place, I follow the guidelines below:
  1. Avoid full open passing groups even though they may be more fun.
  2. I do not use timers since I know they will eventually make me push beyond the limit. I have great fun working on a turn by turn basis not pushing hard all the time.
  3. Spot the hot heads (EASY), give them lots of room and admire their driving prowess.
  4. Use the pit lane to find space.
  5. Prefer weekday events

Last edited by r53s65e90; 08-03-2009 at 04:08 PM.
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      07-30-2009, 04:50 PM   #10
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I agree most accidents I have seen are in the advanced group. I feel that is where their confidence, excedes their ability.

Driving in the noivce or green groups, I find that most drivers are not pushing, so mistakes can be corrected easier. Of course there is always a nucklehead, just stay away from them.

Concerning insurance. I doubt if you will find a standard insurance policy that covers track events. I am in the business and insurance cos are wise to the HPDE events.
If you are willing to walk away from a 60,000 dollar car, then the risk is yours. I would find it very hard to do. So I spend 300 for 55,000 of coverage. If you are not willing to spend that well, what can I say.

I figure a weekend event, if you have to spend the night is $1,000.00. Event cost, insurance, room, gas, food, wear and tear on the car. You have got to pay to play.

Also remember that is is also a liability issue. If a driver is negligent and hurts someone, he can still be sued, the waivers will not stop it. Your insurance will not help you. Hell now a days you do not have to be negligent to be sued.

Use wisdom.
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      07-30-2009, 05:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4u3 View Post
Also remember that is is also a liability issue. If a driver is negligent and hurts someone, he can still be sued, the waivers will not stop it. Your insurance will not help you. Hell now a days you do not have to be negligent to be sued.
Does you HPDE track insurance cover liability? I am not aware of any HPDE insurance policies that cover that. The ones I am aware of cover your car only.
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      07-30-2009, 05:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4u3 View Post
Concerning insurance. I doubt if you will find a standard insurance policy that covers track events. I am in the business and insurance cos are wise to the HPDE events.
If you are willing to walk away from a 60,000 dollar car, then the risk is yours. I would find it very hard to do. So I spend 300 for 55,000 of coverage. If you are not willing to spend that well, what can I say.

I figure a weekend event, if you have to spend the night is $1,000.00. Event cost, insurance, room, gas, food, wear and tear on the car. You have got to pay to play.
I will pay to play no doubt. Nevertheless, it is a matter of principle too. It is really annoying to be covered in the case you are flying 120mph drunk down the highway and have a crash and not covered when you are enjoying your car in a safe and controlled environment. Therefore, I will give any reasonable insurance a chance (if such a company exists) and then if I am unsuccessful I will buy adequate track insurance. I have seen track crashes where the insurance covered the loss about a year ago. E-surance was "reasonable" until my last renewal a week ago.
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      07-30-2009, 05:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r53s65e90 View Post
I will pay to play no doubt. Nevertheless, it is a matter of principle too. It is really annoying to be covered in the case you are flying 120mph drunk down the highway and have a crash and not covered when you are enjoying your car in a safe and controlled environment. Therefore, I will give any reasonable insurance a chance (if such a company exists) and then if I am unsuccessful I will buy adequate track insurance. I have seen track crashes where the insurance covered the loss about a year ago. E-surance was "reasonable" until my last renewal a week ago.
The difference is that you are not supposed to be driving 120mph on a highway, whereas you are supposed to be doing exactly that during an HPDE. Yes, you can still do 120mph on a highway even though you are not supposed to, but the insurance company tries to estimate the chances of you doing that based on your driving record and prices your policy accordingly. I know of a case where the person was denied a claim when he totalled his car on the track although he was "told" he was covered. He is in court right now fighting the insurance company. We debated that in detail on another thread, so you can find that discussion if you are curious. I also know of "minor" cases where the insurance honored claims. My guess is that they respond differently to major claims. At any rate, you might very well find yourself in court even if you can't find any exclusions in the policy unless you get a statement of coverage in writing.
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      07-30-2009, 06:32 PM   #14
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+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by r53s65e90 View Post
  1. Avoid full open passing groups even though they may be more fun.
  2. I do not use timers since I know they will eventually make me push beyond the limit. I have great fun working on a turn by turn basis not pushing hard all the time.
  3. Spot the hot heads (EASY), give them lots of room and admire their driving prowess.
  4. Use the pit lane to find space.
  5. Prefer weekday events
Exactly, perfect list of ways to reduce chances of incidents. As much as possible, seek out open track space.
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      07-30-2009, 07:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r53s65e90 View Post
I am sure this is going to be one of the most interesting threads (subscribed). Thanks everyone for the valuable pointers.



Track Days: After some 30+ track events in the last 3 years, I have seen a lot of mishaps almost exclusively in the advanced groups. Since I don't want to have to file any claim in the first place, I follow the guidelines below:
  1. Avoid full open passing groups even though they may be more fun.
  2. I do not use timers since I know they will eventually make me push beyond the limit. I have great fun working on a turn by turn basis not pushing hard all the time.
  3. Spot the hot heads (EASY), give them lots of room and admire their driving prowess.
  4. Use the pit lane to find space.
  5. Prefer weekday events

]
Some good advice there for sure!I agree totaly about the weekend thing as the squids tend to come out a lot more on the weekends.Oh there I go using a bike term once again but it sure applies in all forms of motorsport.
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      07-31-2009, 12:55 PM   #16
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Lucid provided some good info. For those of you who belong to BMWCCA, you may wish to check out the following benefit. vz

http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=member_discounts
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      07-31-2009, 07:05 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
Lucid provided some good info. For those of you who belong to BMWCCA, you may wish to check out the following benefit. vz

http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=member_discounts
Need to be logged in to view!
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      07-31-2009, 07:23 PM   #18
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Need to be logged in to view!
I'm sorry, but I guess you have to be a member. If you belong to BMWCCA, then log on. If you do not, I highly recommend you join. The cost is justified.
vz
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      08-01-2009, 05:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
I'm sorry, but I guess you have to be a member. If you belong to BMWCCA, then log on. If you do not, I highly recommend you join. The cost is justified.
vz
Not for a Canadian!
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      08-01-2009, 09:01 AM   #20
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Not for a Canadian!
Sorry. Too bad CCA stops short.
vz
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      08-01-2009, 11:46 PM   #21
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I just got an email from WSIB stating that they just started a new program, which offers liability coverage:

"Through The Chubb Group of Insurance, WSIB offers Drivers Liability coverage for you while you are on track in declared events such as DE, HPDE, Member Days, Autocross, Time Trials and even Club Racing. This policy would cover damages to the track, another vehicle and others. With coverage is based on the number of event you participate in annually. "

Disclaimer: I am not affliated with WSIB.
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      09-04-2009, 01:22 PM   #22
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I have used Lockton Affinity, the one suggested / recommended by BMW CCA. I must say that registering, paying, etc was straight forward...BUT I did not "use" their services since I stayed on the track!

I would really be interested to read from people who unfortunately had to put a claim in...
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