BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > DIY Guides/ Discussions
 
E92-lighting
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-03-2009, 04:34 PM   #111
Cleveland
Banned
0
Rep
50
Posts

 
Drives: M3 coupe
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Louisiana

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
After many days of fairly trouble free use my new B3121 is back to the same old shortcomings. To be fair I do often let my car sit for 2 nights in a row without use. After doing this today my trip odometer reset to 0 and the clock once again "forgot" the time. It is my opinion that this battery will be an OK solution only if 2 criteria are met:

1. The car is used everyday.
2. You are in a warm weather climate.

The math still does not add up to me as to why this unit doesn't work better with a longer reserve time but it clearly isn't. I am going to pursue something in the range of 40-60 Ah.
Smart move.

That's the same conclusion I eventually came to after four years of trial and error. Given my infrequent use of the M, I should have conceded this a long before I did. Just being hard-headed I guess. The 'math' you mentioned is what got me too. It was 'supposed to work', but at the end of the day...they all underperformed.

It certainly would have saved me a lot of time, money, and aggravation...

...if I had stopped looking at the specs, and solely concentrated on the real world performance limitations for my application.

I ended up buying a somewhat larger automotive STARTING battery that had a 44Ah rating. It was a godsend, compared to all the headaches I had with the small lightweight batteries I was constantly trying to use.

There are a few batteries that I found, which might be perfect for you. Given your infrequent driving pattern, a slightly larger battery will work out much better than the Braille battery did. You were on or slightly under the breaking point for the M3. (for a non-daily driver)

Let me know if you're interested, so I can point you in the right direction as to the best available options in this new (more realistic) Ah range.
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2009, 10:25 PM   #112
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
215
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland View Post
Smart move.

That's the same conclusion I eventually came to after four years of trial and error.

...
HP Auto claims that a "registration" of the battery is required for the entire system to take the smaller battery into account. Something that you can not do without the GT1 tool. I'm not entirely sure that the cars system is "aware" of the reserve capacity (it is certainly aware of the steady state output). I will let them perform this on the 27th at So Cal Euro and will update the results here. I'm not hopeful.

It would be great for you to make some suggestions about alternatives. We will all benefit from that and from your experiences. You are aware of the large physical size of the OEM E92 batter right?
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2009, 10:41 PM   #113
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
328
Rep
10,632
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
HP Auto claims that a "registration" of the battery is required for the entire system to take the smaller battery into account. Something that you can not do without the GT1 tool. I'm not entirely sure that the cars system is "aware" of the reserve capacity (it is certainly aware of the steady state output). I will let them perform this on the 27th at So Cal Euro and will update the results here. I'm not hopeful.

It would be great for you to make some suggestions about alternatives. We will all benefit from that and from your experiences. You are aware of the large physical size of the OEM E92 batter right?
Registration only takes into account a stored reading of battery capacity at 80%, odometer reading and refreshed stored temperature statistics. This will not aid in charging.

We're using the 21lb Braille in our M3 and 17lb in our 1-series project, the 1-series is a daily driver with no problems, the M3 needs to be started up about once a week.

Smaller batteries simply have less reserve capacity at a cost of shaving weight - drive often.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2009, 02:48 AM   #114
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
215
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Registration only takes into account a stored reading of battery capacity at 80%, odometer reading and refreshed stored temperature statistics. This will not aid in charging.
Thanks for your reply. Can you clarify - what does the stored reading of battery capacity at 80% mean exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
We're using the 21lb Braille in our M3 and 17lb in our 1-series project, the 1-series is a daily driver with no problems, the M3 needs to be started up about once a week.

Smaller batteries simply have less reserve capacity at a cost of shaving weight - drive often.
Maybe you haven't read the whole thread. Do you have comfort access, Bluetooth? It was suggested (perhaps speculated) prior in this thread the comfort access may create a higher drain on the batter during the time the car is not used. My 21 lb B3121 simply can not handle two days in a row without driving, let alone simply being started once a week. Sure the car will start but the clock and trip odometer get reset and CA starts to not allow the one touch open. Something must be different, either our cars or our batteries.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2009, 01:44 PM   #115
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
328
Rep
10,632
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Thanks for your reply. Can you clarify - what does the stored reading of battery capacity at 80% mean exactly?
It's essentially a registration mark reported to the Power Module, similar to cabin air filters, brake pads, oil, etc. Data can be stored (OD readings) for the last 7 battery replacements.

80% is simply the number BMW chose and used as a reference point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Maybe you haven't read the whole thread. Do you have comfort access, Bluetooth? It was suggested (perhaps speculated) prior in this thread the comfort access may create a higher drain on the batter during the time the car is not used. My 21 lb B3121 simply can not handle two days in a row without driving, let alone simply being started once a week. Sure the car will start but the clock and trip odometer get reset and CA starts to not allow the one touch open. Something must be different, either our cars or our batteries.
I've been watching this thread from the beginning.

Our MY08 M3 is fully loaded w/ sunroof, including Sirius, Bluetooth, Comfort Access and other devices (for datalogging and other testing which communicate via CAN). If there is a potential issue - I want it happening to our car first since its rare that cars break down in driveways. I'm also using the B2131.

Our 135i project uses the Braille B2317 unit and is a daily driver, but the B2015 would give occasional "low battery" lights from time to time with no issues on cold start up, possibly related to battery registration.

2 days is a suspect, I have no issues as long as the vehicle is driven at least one a week. However, it should be known that a race battery cannot simply be held up to the same expectations as OEM on CCA/reserve capacity.

My situation is not saying one or the other is wrong or right - just simple reference. Hope this helps.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2009, 02:18 PM   #116
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
215
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Our MY08 M3 is fully loaded w/ sunroof, including Sirius, Bluetooth, Comfort Access and other devices (for datalogging and other testing which communicate via CAN). If there is a potential issue - I want it happening to our car first since its rare that cars break down in driveways. I'm also using the B2131.

2 days is a suspect, I have no issues as long as the vehicle is driven at least one a week. However, it should be known that a race battery cannot simply be held up to the same expectations as OEM on CCA/reserve capacity.

My situation is not saying one or the other is wrong or right - just simple reference. Hope this helps.
Of course your experience is very useful. Nonetheless very strange. We have markedly different experiences with nearly identical hardware. Do you know a real expert at Braille I can ping on this? I'd like to keep the battery but not with the annoying little bugs I am experiencing.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2009, 02:34 PM   #117
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
328
Rep
10,632
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Of course your experience is very useful. Nonetheless very strange. We have markedly different experiences with nearly identical hardware. Do you know a real expert at Braille I can ping on this? I'd like to keep the battery but not with the annoying little bugs I am experiencing.
I have a conference call with the owner of Braille happening today, they are away at a local trade show.

PM me any questions you might have and I'll be happy to ask for you, or I can forward him your contact info.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2009, 03:05 PM   #118
HP Autosport
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
United_States
418
Rep
11,446
Posts


 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, Quaife, Stoptech, Vorshlag

iTrader: (29)

My suggestions was to check for an electrical draw or to make sure all modules are going to sleep after 20-30 minutes. I am suspecting an electrical draw causing the issue(s).

There are other M3 owners with the same set up you have and have obsolutely no issues. We need to find the source of the problem. Our shop vehicle has a B2015 in it, and a 2 week storage period yields no problems and the vehicle starts just fine.
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2009, 05:43 AM   #119
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
116
Rep
8,034
Posts

 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

So the various experiences reported in this thread demonstrate a diverse set of outcomes, and it sounds like different driving patterns and cars (configuration and maybe software) limit our ability to conclude much other than the observation that the B3121 might be sitting on a gray line when used in the E9X M3. I might still give mine a try, but if I do, I will be carrying a battery charger around with me before I am convinced that it is working for me...
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2009, 01:30 PM   #120
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
215
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
So the various experiences reported in this thread demonstrate a diverse set of outcomes, and it sounds like different driving patterns and cars (configuration and maybe software) limit our ability to conclude much other than the observation that the B3121 might be sitting on a gray line when used in the E9X M3. I might still give mine a try, but if I do, I will be carrying a battery charger around with me before I am convinced that it is working for me...
Yes, definitely gray areas here - including cars that "drain" differently when off. I would not bother at all with a battery charger though, I've never had problems starting whatsoever, just the small electronic glitches I've mentioned.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2009, 04:27 PM   #121
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
215
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

A long overdue update. I hooked up with Harold from HP at the So Cal Euro event and he did some "resetting" of the battery/charging profiles using a laptop and Autologic (or GT1) tool. Since then my car is behaving normally and I am not experiencing ANY flaws, bugs, downsides, etc. from my Braille battery. I can now leave the car unused for multiple nights in a row as well. This leaves me with the comfort that the specfications are in line with the batterys actual performance. If you recall there was much prior discussion in this regard - the batteries specs seemed to be inconsistent with its behavior in my car.

Anyway thanks again Harold. The Braille 3121 has my full endorsement for a warm weather M3 application, regardless of the vehicles options.

Lucid: Any update on your installation?
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2009, 03:31 AM   #122
marcel b
Lieutenant Colonel
marcel b's Avatar
46
Rep
1,864
Posts

 
Drives: 1M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

I am surprised a bit people have some issues with the Braille Battery.
I have had a Brailly B2015 in my Z4M coupe for year and had no issues what so ever. It always started, also after 3 weeks of not using, and also in cold temperatures here in Switzerland.
Maybe the differences with the E9X is the amount of electronics in the car...
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2009, 12:09 PM   #123
doba_s
Major General
doba_s's Avatar
United_States
149
Rep
6,099
Posts

 
Drives: M3, 1M
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (26)

Send a message via Skype™ to doba_s
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
A long overdue update. I hooked up with Harold from HP at the So Cal Euro event and he did some "resetting" of the battery/charging profiles using a laptop and Autologic (or GT1) tool. Since then my car is behaving normally and I am not experiencing ANY flaws, bugs, downsides, etc. from my Braille battery. I can now leave the car unused for multiple nights in a row as well. This leaves me with the comfort that the specfications are in line with the batterys actual performance. If you recall there was much prior discussion in this regard - the batteries specs seemed to be inconsistent with its behavior in my car.

Anyway thanks again Harold. The Braille 3121 has my full endorsement for a warm weather M3 application, regardless of the vehicles options.

Lucid: Any update on your installation?

Good info ...
Appreciate 0
      07-19-2009, 01:50 PM   #124
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
215
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b View Post
I am surprised a bit people have some issues with the Braille Battery.
I have had a Brailly B2015 in my Z4M coupe for year and had no issues what so ever. It always started, also after 3 weeks of not using, and also in cold temperatures here in Switzerland.
Maybe the differences with the E9X is the amount of electronics in the car...
Yes, different cars is an "apples to oranges" comparison. How many amp-hours is the OEM BMW Z4M battery? The M3 is 90.
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2009, 06:50 AM   #125
marcel b
Lieutenant Colonel
marcel b's Avatar
46
Rep
1,864
Posts

 
Drives: 1M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Yes, different cars is an "apples to oranges" comparison. How many amp-hours is the OEM BMW Z4M battery? The M3 is 90.
The Z4M has a 70 Amp-hours battery... explains the difference (partly).
Appreciate 0
      08-25-2009, 11:21 PM   #126
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
215
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
A long overdue update. I hooked up with Harold from HP at the So Cal Euro event and he did some "resetting" of the battery/charging profiles using a laptop and Autologic (or GT1) tool. Since then my car is behaving normally and I am not experiencing ANY flaws, bugs, downsides, etc. from my Braille battery. I can now leave the car unused for multiple nights in a row as well. This leaves me with the comfort that the specfications are in line with the batterys actual performance. If you recall there was much prior discussion in this regard - the batteries specs seemed to be inconsistent with its behavior in my car.

Anyway thanks again Harold. The Braille 3121 has my full endorsement for a warm weather M3 application, regardless of the vehicles options.

Lucid: Any update on your installation?
Well, back to square one... The battery now often gets so low in charge that the date and time are lost. I just got back from 2 weeks of vacation (away from the car and it was not started nor used) and now I can not seem to get enough charge in the battery to memorize the date and time. I am going to return the battery and look for something around 60 Ah. I am very puzzled as to why many can have good luck on this exact car in this exact configuration.
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2009, 12:37 AM   #127
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
116
Rep
8,034
Posts

 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Well, back to square one... The battery now often gets so low in charge that the date and time are lost. I just got back from 2 weeks of vacation (away from the car and it was not started nor used) and now I can not seem to get enough charge in the battery to memorize the date and time. I am going to return the battery and look for something around 60 Ah. I am very puzzled as to why many can have good luck on this exact car in this exact configuration.
Was everything OK before you went on vacation? In other words, did the 2 weeks of parking cause this?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2009, 01:17 AM   #128
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
215
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Was everything OK before you went on vacation? In other words, did the 2 weeks of parking cause this?
Sorry I did not make that clear. It did being its usual misbehavior before the 2 week idle period. That is, it was "forgetting" the date and time combined with periodic low charge warnings.
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2009, 02:23 AM   #129
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
215
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Just to close the loop here - a brief update. I finally went back to my stock battery. I had a low voltage warning until my first long-ish drive. Since then it has been gone and there are NO problems with CA nor with the date/time memory. Problem cured as I much suspected it would be.

Does anyone know of a battery by BWM or their battery supplier that is lighter, the same form factor and about 60 Ah or so. This would be a great replacement for those of us in warmer climates looking to save weight without any reliability problems.
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2009, 07:54 AM   #130
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
United_States
19
Rep
1,948
Posts

 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Just to close the loop here - a brief update. I finally went back to my stock battery. I had a low voltage warning until my first long-ish drive. Since then it has been gone and there are NO problems with CA nor with the date/time memory. Problem cured as I much suspected it would be.

Does anyone know of a battery by BWM or their battery supplier that is lighter, the same form factor and about 60 Ah or so. This would be a great replacement for those of us in warmer climates looking to save weight without any reliability problems.
The OE supplier for BMW automotive batteries is Exide.

I would suggest a battery used in the MINI COOPER. (BMW satellite brand)

It's rated at 55Ah's, weighs approx. 35 lbs., and it's BMW OE quality.

You are looking at approx $190 /w/ tax depending on where you buy it.

Here is the factory part# for the MINI COOPER (Exide) 55Ah battery:

61217571896

$176.25 list price as of 1/09

I suggest this for quality (proven OE performance), convenience (available at any mini dealership in the country), and the light weight package.

I used this battery with great results in my E46 M3 for nearly 3yrs. without any memory/charging issues.

I strongly recommend that you consider this route, as you won't find many other viable alternatives. (despite all the marketing claims out there from a variety of aftermarket lightweight battery companies)
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2009, 10:09 AM   #131
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
116
Rep
8,034
Posts

 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

LMB, that sounds like a pretty good option, which still yields about 20lbs of weight savings.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2009, 11:58 AM   #132
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
215
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Great suggestion LMB, it is the same size at the OEM battery? Or of a size that mounts using one of the other available mounting holes in the E9X M3?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:12 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST