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      07-02-2009, 08:04 AM   #1
lucid
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Arrow DOT-R Tires Discussion

Title says it all. How are the different R-compound tires working with our E9X Ms on the track?

Below is an exchange copied from another thread to get this going.


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Originally Posted by skierman64 View Post
What type of track rubber did you order?
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Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I am going with another set of the R888's.The Toyo race tire distributor is a client of mine and now that I am running the proper pressures in them they seem to work ok.They are not the quickest tires and they are a extremly forgiving tire to large slip angles which makes them very easy to drive on.I just flipped the fronts on the rims as I am not running enough camber and as this weekend will be the 1st time on a faster track,I will get a proper feel for the balance of this car in some 4 th gear corners.A little bit of understeer at Mosport is a good thing and is the faster way round than a loose car.
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Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I might need a new set of tires next month, and I've been looking into the R888s. They are $50/tire than the BFG R1s. I'm actually happy with the R1s, but looking at options anyway. How would you compare the two?
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Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
The R1's are not avaiable in Canada unless I buy them them from Tire Rack or import them myself.I find the R888's to be a slow responding tire even compared to my 19" PS2 street tires but they seem to be holding up quite well.The only other R's that I have been on the last 8 years have been Hoosier's which were Grand-Am cup takeoffs & Khumo Victoracers and of the 2,I much prefer the Hoosiers as they are an extremly sharp tire but they did not tolerate improper alignment settings very well but I was getting them for $50/tire with 1 heat cycle on them.
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      07-02-2009, 09:57 AM   #2
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I run BFG R1 265/35 front, 285/30 rear.
I keep the PS2 as "wet" tires.
My original impression was that the BFG R1 has higher limits in every sense but when you aproach that limit they are somewhat less predictable. I feel the PS2 has wider transition zone before give away. The BFG R1 lost tracktion all of a sudden a couple of times when I thought I still have good adhesion. I have never spin the car with the PS2s but I did it 2 times with the BFG R1. They are more sensitive to pressure changes, need more warm up, but they never become soft or greasy with my driving. They did improved my lap times.
I am not too experienced on the track, so take my assessment with a grain of salt.
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      07-02-2009, 12:11 PM   #3
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I am running BFG's R1s square 275/35-18s.

I have three track days on them and they are holding up quite well. I think they will deliver 6 days. Grip is stupendous. Shaved more than 3 seconds from a 2:04 lap time. WIll definitely get them again after they wear.

Pressures have to be kept between 38 & 41 psi for best grip. If they go above 41 they start getting a bit slippery.
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      07-02-2009, 12:42 PM   #4
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I am running a square set of Nitto NT-01 275/35/18.

I never had them heat cycled and just started lapping with them brand new. They were very grippy right off the bat and after the first day they got even better. After 10 days at the track, they are still holding up very well. I expect them to last me the rest of the season, about 3 more events or 6 more days, maybe more. I haven't noticed any degradation of grip after all the heat cycles so far and based on other people's experiences with these tires, I don't think that will ever be an issue for the tires' tread life. They have gradually become more of a slick and grip has been more tenacious as the weather has become warmer.

Because they are a square set, I have the luxury of rotating them periodically. Left to right, front to back, to even out the wear. This seems to work really well. The shoulders are holding up well despite the stock camber I run with and I'm very pleased with their performance, although I suspect some camber up front would be very beneficial with these tires.

I had them on a wet track once, but never again. It was an adventure, especially under braking. I use my stock PS2s as wet tires now.

I run the Nittos 39-40 psi hot front and back. Feels very well balanced in the square configuration. The tires are also very predictable for an R-compound and will let the driver know when their limits are approached. This attribute of the tires has remained consistent since day one.

I love these tires and would buy another set. I used to have Toyo RA-1s as well as R888s and although those were on a different car, I still think I like the NT-01s more overall. Best part about the Nittos are that they are relatively cheap.

I will also consider BFG R1s for next season but may just stick with another set of these Nittos since it looks like they last longer.
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      07-02-2009, 01:29 PM   #5
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I am running BFG's R1s square 275/35-18s.
Are you using any spacers?
Thanks
vz
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      07-02-2009, 03:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attila View Post
I run BFG R1 265/35 front, 285/30 rear.
I keep the PS2 as "wet" tires.
My original impression was that the BFG R1 has higher limits in every sense but when you aproach that limit they are somewhat less predictable. I feel the PS2 has wider transition zone before give away. The BFG R1 lost tracktion all of a sudden a couple of times when I thought I still have good adhesion. I have never spin the car with the PS2s but I did it 2 times with the BFG R1. They are more sensitive to pressure changes, need more warm up, but they never become soft or greasy with my driving. They did improved my lap times.
I am not too experienced on the track, so take my assessment with a grain of salt.
I think bringing a set of PS2s as wet track backup works well, and several of us here seem to be doing exactly that.

I've found the BFG R1s to be more forgiving than I expected--provided they are up to temp. Regardless, with them, you need to react and countersteer much earlier than you would with street tires. When they are cold, they are unforgiving, and will snap oversteer--not much of a warning. PS2s will scream for a reasonable amount of time before they let go. They'll give you plenty warning in other ways even when they are greasy. With the R1s, the audial warning is more like an aggressive tire bite than a scream, but you need to be listening for it. I like their pricing at around $250/tire.

I currently have 4.5 days on them or so, and would like to get at least 8 days out of this set, and looking at tread wear, that should be possible.
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      07-02-2009, 03:36 PM   #7
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I know we are talking in days here but how many miles/laps and sessions do you run in a day? A normal track day for me may be 50 laps, of just over 2 miles with 12 turns. I have yet to run R comps on my M but the PS2s for myself and a few others were only good for 3-4 days. I have about 80 laps on Nitto NT05s and think i could pull another 80 out of them. Once they are done I think I will move back to NT01s which is what I have run the most on my previous setups.
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      07-02-2009, 03:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSMRX7 View Post
I know we are talking in days here but how many miles/laps and sessions do you run in a day? A normal track day for me may be 50 laps, of just over 2 miles with 12 turns. I have yet to run R comps on my M but the PS2s for myself and a few others were only good for 3-4 days. I have about 80 laps on Nitto NT05s and think i could pull another 80 out of them. Once they are done I think I will move back to NT01s which is what I have run the most on my previous setups.
I guess the miles/laps metric depends on the average speed of the track, but the sessions I am in are usually about 20-25 minutes with some exceptions of longer sessions. So that's about 80-90 minutes a day? At Limerock, that would mean something like 75-80 laps a day maybe. At the Glen 35-40? I destroyed my front PS2s that came with the car in pretty much exactly 4 dry track days. Rears had more in them. I was a bit worried about using them again last week thinking they might be destroyed in the rain as well, but they held up fine then--obviously because of the slower speeds and lower temps.
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      07-02-2009, 03:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I guess the miles/laps metric depends on the average speed of the track, but the sessions I am in are usually about 20-25 minutes with some exceptions of longer sessions. So that's about 80-90 minutes a day? At Limerock, that would mean something like 75-80 laps a day maybe. I destroyed my front PS2s that came with the car in pretty much exactly 4 dry track days. I was a bit worried about using them again last week thinking they might be destroyed in the rain as well, but they held up fine then--obviously because of the slower speeds and lower temps.

Thanks for the info Lucid thats the kind of data I needed.

We have a 180deg turn that can be taken between 60-80 kph that ate my front PS2s in no time, I had to back way off to 60 kph just to keep the tire reasonable for one day. I have noticed with the H&R sports plus, and extra camber from an alignement that I can hold this above 70kph without ill affect, I am hoping that with some camber plates and NT01s to push beyond 80kph as this corner exits onto the front straight so the most important turn on the track and really shows the weak point in the front suspension design.
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      07-02-2009, 07:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tszene View Post
Waiting for a set of hoosier R6 275/35-18s on forgeline wheels dedicated for the dry track days.
They'll be here by the 11th and them i'm off to the glen for two days 7/13 and 14th with scda1.com .
Anyone out there with experience with those tires? Any feedback is appreciated.
I'll post afterwards.
Tamas
You went with the Turner setup? I saw that on the Turner car last year at NHMS. Let us know how that does.
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      07-02-2009, 09:19 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
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Are you using any spacers?
Thanks
vz
I use 5mm spacers in the rear, but its just to keep the differences in track width front & rear as stock. They are not necessary. I have very slight rubbing in the front at full lock. Not a problem at the track. Wheels are TR Motorsports 18x10.
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      07-02-2009, 09:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSMRX7 View Post
I know we are talking in days here but how many miles/laps and sessions do you run in a day? A normal track day for me may be 50 laps, of just over 2 miles with 12 turns. I have yet to run R comps on my M but the PS2s for myself and a few others were only good for 3-4 days. I have about 80 laps on Nitto NT05s and think i could pull another 80 out of them. Once they are done I think I will move back to NT01s which is what I have run the most on my previous setups.
On an average track day I do between 110 and a 130 miles at the track in 4 or 5 sessions.
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      07-02-2009, 09:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tszene View Post
Waiting for a set of hoosier R6 275/35-18s on forgeline wheels dedicated for the dry track days.
They'll be here by the 11th and them i'm off to the glen for two days 7/13 and 14th with scda1.com .
Anyone out there with experience with those tires? Any feedback is appreciated.
I'll post afterwards.
Tamas
Nice setup. I didn't spring for it b/c I can't afford it. Those wheels are very good.
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      07-02-2009, 09:56 PM   #14
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Nitto NT-01s in 245/275-40/18 are very good performers, factor in the price and they are hard to beat.

I run them at 37-39psi hot. Good wear pattern and temperature differential with no significant roll-over using -1.8° camber front and rear w/ Dinan plates and springs. Car is nearly neutral, very slight understeer.

The require little warm up, on a hot day I can push from pit out. In the cold they need half a lap, frustrating those on Hoosiers and Cups.

I drive to the track with them and with a full tread they're very manageable in the wet unless there's standing water, drove two wet/drying sessions with them nearly bald and they were better than I would have thought possible, no snap spin tendencies with careful throttle control, drifts predictably in the wet and maintains decent grip.

Tire starts out grippy as sticker tires, and then gets faster as it wears to a slick with two sipes til the wear indicators are almost gone, so lots of life for your money. They seem quite resistant to heat cycling, wearing to the bone. Behavior is much like the old Toyo RA1. Same amount of stick to R888 to me, but with more life. Supposedly the NT-01 is a modified RA-1, Nitto is a Toyo company.

They only give up about a second to Hoosier R6 in their prime on a 90 second lap at my local track. About equal to worn out Hoosiers.
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      07-02-2009, 10:01 PM   #15
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BRG R1 square 265 - love the tires.
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      07-02-2009, 10:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tszene View Post
Waiting for a set of hoosier R6 275/35-18s on forgeline wheels dedicated for the dry track days.
They'll be here by the 11th and them i'm off to the glen for two days 7/13 and 14th with scda1.com .
Anyone out there with experience with those tires? Any feedback is appreciated.
I'll post afterwards.
Tamas
Sticky tires, but short lifespan with our heavy cars. If you drive them to the track, they pick up road debris and puncture easily as one would expect.

You might consider the new Hoosier R100 full race slick. They cost a little more ($1400 set) but Hoosier states they are more suited to heavy cars. I'm going to try these soon. Friends who run these on GT3s are raving about the increase in stick and life over R6s. They come in the correct size for 18s.
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      07-02-2009, 10:14 PM   #17
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I about to buy some so thanks for this thread Lucid!
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      07-05-2009, 02:43 PM   #18
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I do only half days on the track since it's extremely difficult to get away for a whole day for me.
Almost every time I do 70-80miles on the track. (I reset my trip computer just to get amused with the 7.5-8.0 miles/gallon reading)
So far I've got about 230miles on the BFG -R1 and I think I have another 250-300 miles to go.
So I guess I have about 500-550 miles life expectancy with my driving on MAM per set of BFG-R1.
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      07-05-2009, 03:31 PM   #19
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NT01 is probably the best value for HPDEs. They can get pretty hot, recover quickly, and don't degrade with heat cycles like the R6 or R888. They will last about twice as long as an R6 on the E46 (based on 15 sets of R6s on my E46 and 5 sets of NT01s)

On the heavy E9X, if you're driving at 9/10ths or above where you are getting the benefit out of the tire, I'd be surprised if R6s last more than 1 to 2 HPDE days. I got about 4 hard days out of two sets of NT01s on my E90.

I'd like to try the R1s soon....sounds like an awesome tire.
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      07-18-2009, 03:00 PM   #20
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My R888's on the rear have had little grip ever since they got to about 2/32nds.Unlike the other tires that I have run till they "corded" they did not slowly give but just totaly fell off and came apart at the end of their life.


The problem with this is that is came apart in long strands and battered up the rear fender pretty good but fortunatly it polished right up today.The good thing is that I had my top notch pit crew with me at the track yesterday.


But at least you can make a bracelet out of the strands
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      07-25-2009, 03:51 PM   #21
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Nice wheel setup Tamas. What tires were you running on the stock 19" rims? If you shaved 6 seconds, they must not have been r-compounds?
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      07-25-2009, 04:10 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tszene View Post
the stock 19'' had the Michelin stock tires.
OK. That explains it. You can build much more speed on the fast straights since your exit speeds will be so much higher.

I decided not to go back to the Glen in my E92 M3. I can't restrain myself to go slow once I am on the track and that track is too fast for an uncaged car with 400hp IMO. My speedo was hitting 150+ as well. If something goes seriously wrong at those speeds in a street car, I don't know that you have much of a chance. Be safe.
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