BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
INDustry distribution
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-14-2009, 12:18 PM   #23
J08M3
Major General
 
J08M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

Posts: 6,012
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
Anyway, OP - Please tell us what high HP, RWD car on street tires _doesn't_ lose traction when you floor it in low gear.
Of course you don't even need real high HP to spin the tires.

Just waiting for a video that shows this thing under control....

PG, yea, some good racing tires would probably really help out.
__________________
J08M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-14-2009, 12:55 PM   #24
tightie
JOSH SHOKRI.
 
tightie's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 E92 Coupe.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: los angeles, california.

Posts: 5,576
iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [3.95]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Yep, on a straight line in high gears, the extra power can be applied. How are things in 2nd gear? What gear were you in at the beginning, and did you floor it then?
I was in second gear in that run, going 40 mph.. Traction control was completely off and I didn't floor it... I went about 75% of the throttle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN View Post
How will be doing so?? to get more power contact to the ground?
Sorry, I was really tired last night, I will be getting a new designed intake with two cones and a bigger blower. (much more power)

Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
well since you're the only one here with 600+

Can you actually get all that power to the wheels without loosing traction and keeping it in control?

Of course there are plenty of cars faster than the ours would be with 600 HP. That was not the point of the question. The point was can this car actually make use of all that power? Again the reason I ask is every youtube video shows nothing but wheel spin. Tightie, that video you just posted is about the only exception I've seen but you were already in one of the upper gears where there's less torque at the wheels.

I'm sure this car could be modified with enough chassis / suspension / gears and whatever else to handle it. But then it's really not the same car anymore.

I haven't driven a E9x M3 over 500 HP yet so I don't know the answer, just throwing it out there to see what you guys think.
Can I get all the power to the wheel without loosing control.. Yes. It's all about practice with the throttle. I think the video your referring to is the first one I posted that was 40-90mph, if your in first/second gear you cant go full throttle because you are just going to spin the tires... You would have to play with the throttle, once you get good at it you can turn off traction and have fun. That video was second gear and I went full throttle just to show the low end power.

If you look at the other videos I posted 60-140, they all started in third gear. I mean you can drive the car with traction on with all this power and have no wheel spin in 1,2,3 gear but you will be alot slower. Trust me, you can handle the power after getting use to it. The run w/ the m5 was in second gear, 40 mph, I think the power got to the wheels pretty good without wheel spin, Agree? Again, I'm not a street racer or someone that is just going to burn someone light to light to worry about 0-60, I'm in for those long spirited runs on open roads. The look on M5/M6 drivers are priceless when they see a little white M3 fly past them at whatever speed they are at.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHarris View Post
tightie, what size are your rear tires?
305/30/19 PS2
I just ordered some CUP tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
Haha that's a harsh beating considering he got the jump on you and it didn't even matter. What mods did the M5 have?

Anyway, OP - Please tell us what high HP, RWD car on street tires _doesn't_ lose traction when you floor it in low gear.

The ZR1 for example spins the tires to 100mph if you just floor it. Welcome to the world of horsepower.
You forgot that I was pumping 91 gas, If I had 100,104,109 gas it would have been alot more brutal. I will post another video next time I head out with better gas. As Dru stated, he had SS X-pipe and Eisemann Exhaust.

I haven't tried out different tires yet but I just ordred Cup tires (R Compound) I'm pretty sure once the tires are warm (Nitto NT05/Toyo R888) can handle the power. A buddy of mine has a HPF Stg 3 M3 w/ NT05 and has NO traction problems.







I'll have new tires and 109 gas next time I head down to hang out with some friends, I'll let you guys know how it goes.
__________________
Present: 15 YMB F80 M3 | iND Painted Front Reflectors, Painted Side Marker Set, Rear Painted Emblem & Front Grill Surround | Gintani Downpipes | H&R Super Sport Springs | Macht Schnell Stud Conversion Kit + Spacers
*California Members* Speed District M3 Track Days: August 1 @ Willow Springs Raceway
tightie is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-14-2009, 12:59 PM   #25
J08M3
Major General
 
J08M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

Posts: 6,012
iTrader: (8)

Tightie,

thanks for the real world feedback.
__________________
J08M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-14-2009, 09:32 PM   #26
Eugene-TAIWAN
Brigadier General
 
Eugene-TAIWAN's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan

Posts: 3,112
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tightie View Post
I was in second gear in that run, going 40 mph.. Traction control was completely off and I didn't floor it... I went about 75% of the throttle



Sorry, I was really tired last night, I will be getting a new designed intake with two cones and a bigger blower. (much more power)



Can I get all the power to the wheel without loosing control.. Yes. It's all about practice with the throttle. I think the video your referring to is the first one I posted that was 40-90mph, if your in first/second gear you cant go full throttle because you are just going to spin the tires... You would have to play with the throttle, once you get good at it you can turn off traction and have fun. That video was second gear and I went full throttle just to show the low end power.

If you look at the other videos I posted 60-140, they all started in third gear. I mean you can drive the car with traction on with all this power and have no wheel spin in 1,2,3 gear but you will be alot slower. Trust me, you can handle the power after getting use to it. The run w/ the m5 was in second gear, 40 mph, I think the power got to the wheels pretty good without wheel spin, Agree? Again, I'm not a street racer or someone that is just going to burn someone light to light to worry about 0-60, I'm in for those long spirited runs on open roads. The look on M5/M6 drivers are priceless when they see a little white M3 fly past them at whatever speed they are at.




305/30/19 PS2
I just ordered some CUP tires.



You forgot that I was pumping 91 gas, If I had 100,104,109 gas it would have been alot more brutal. I will post another video next time I head out with better gas. As Dru stated, he had SS X-pipe and Eisemann Exhaust.

I haven't tried out different tires yet but I just ordred Cup tires (R Compound) I'm pretty sure once the tires are warm (Nitto NT05/Toyo R888) can handle the power. A buddy of mine has a HPF Stg 3 M3 w/ NT05 and has NO traction problems.







I'll have new tires and 109 gas next time I head down to hang out with some friends, I'll let you guys know how it goes.

A bigger blower?? from who?? VFE ?? AA?? or ESS
Eugene-TAIWAN is offline   Taiwan
0
Reply With Quote
      06-14-2009, 11:42 PM   #27
Jonmartin
Banned
 
Jonmartin's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angles (818)

Posts: 2,103
iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to Jonmartin
Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
Sounds like a dumb question at first... But when you think about it can this car handle 600+ HP? I love HP just as much as the next guy, but if you look at all the supercharger videos of E9x M3's making 600 or more HP it's totally unpractical and can't even control the power at the wheels. Seems more like a huge amount of money just to melt tires. If you need to use less than full throttle to go you might as well build a less powerful engine and have more control. I bet anything the 520 HP strokers will be much faster on the track than 600+ HP supercharged cars.

Or is the supercharger and over 600 just for bragging rights?

Any other thoughts on this?
The vids you see of the "uncontrolable" driving is for showboating you don't have to drive it that way obviously...
Jonmartin is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-15-2009, 06:31 AM   #28
J08M3
Major General
 
J08M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

Posts: 6,012
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonmartin View Post
The vids you see of the "uncontrolable" driving is for showboating you don't have to drive it that way obviously...
Agreed

Whatever happened to the idea of PG and Tightie getting on a track to compare engine packages?
__________________
J08M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-15-2009, 08:11 AM   #29
FStop7
I like cars
 
FStop7's Avatar
 
Drives: M6
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Newbury Park, CA

Posts: 5,059
iTrader: (3)

If the M3 had VTEC the tires would rip off of the wheels when you step on the gas
FStop7 is offline   Vatican City State
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2009, 10:07 PM   #30
ersin
Brigadier General
 
ersin's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 IB E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maryland

Posts: 4,008
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
If the M3 had VTEC the tires would rip off of the wheels when you step on the gas
Isn't VANOS pretty much the same thing? Except that VANOS is continually variable whereas VTEC is more like on/off?

I believe R compound tires with a blown engine could be too much for the M3. Not because you can't control the power but because it may be putting too much stress on the drivetrain. I've heard stories of differentials breaking once the sticky tires go on. Good luck.
__________________

I've been assimilated. 6MT/ZPP/18"/PS extended.
ersin is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2009, 10:28 PM   #31
skierman64
Brigadier General
 
skierman64's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 Space Gray M3 & E36M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Greater St Louis Metro area

Posts: 3,068
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
1998 M3 Coupe  [0.00]
2008 M3 Coupe  [0.00]
Send a message via Yahoo to skierman64
Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
If the M3 had VTEC the tires would rip off of the wheels when you step on the gas
What???? Do you have any clue about what you're talking about?
__________________
Get a professional motorsports full featured stopwatch app for your Blackberry here: http://appworld.blackberry.com/webstore/content/19464
Invest Wisely...The best mod for your money?? BMWCCA high performance driver's school. The mod that lasts a lifetime and improves the performance of any car you drive
skierman64 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2009, 10:29 PM   #32
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

I think he is kidding guys...
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-01-2009, 11:06 PM   #33
ACZakka325i
Lieutenant Colonel
 
ACZakka325i's Avatar
 
Drives: X1 3.5 M-Sport
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: CT

Posts: 1,756
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
If the M3 had VTEC the tires would rip off of the wheels when you step on the gas
People like this keep us from having any kind of real conversation around here.
__________________
2013 535i xdrive(Current)
2008 E92 M3 (Gone)
2006 E90 325i (Gone)
2002 E46 325xi (Gone)
1991 E30 325i (Gone)
ACZakka325i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2009, 01:11 AM   #34
lazyassand1balla24
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2007 Alpine White/Red Interior
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Glendale, California

Posts: 1,618
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
Actually the stock hp is perfect, its the torque that needs to be upped. If this car had 100lb ft more TQ, it would be perfect.
+1 thats exactly what this car needs
__________________
lazyassand1balla24 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2009, 01:33 AM   #35
e36jakeo
Captain
 
Drives: 2008 M3 6 Speed MT!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern CA

Posts: 624
iTrader: (0)

I think it can handle 600 HP. The bigger question is can the driver?
__________________
Driving sideways: It's not faster, but damn it's more fun!
e36jakeo is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-02-2009, 01:35 AM   #36
x838nwy
Private First Class
 
Drives: nothing right now...
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Thailand

Posts: 178
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
Getting the power to the ground, in the manner you're asking, is probably a function of the tires, not the car. Put the right tires on the car (racing tires), and I don't think you'll have a problem making use of the power.

Remember what I've said about the stroker: it's a torque monster. I can burn rubber all the way into 3rd gear if I want to. I tried to do some 1/4 mile times with my toy steering wheel, and because of the extra power, I found it very difficult to get good launches, or to keep the wheels from spinning once I got started.
+1,000

It's more a function of the tyres rather than the car itself. Okay, the suspensions and chassis integrity has something to do with it, but for the most part, it's the tyres.

Another important factor is the driver. Put me in an F1 car and I will find that power to be quite extremely 'uncontrollable' and 'too much'. I'm pretty sure, however, that i the same car Kimi Raikkonen could make use of 100 more horses without a problem.

For us mere mortals, there is a law of diminishing returns at some point, but for me at least, it's driver limited, not vehicle limited.
x838nwy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:27 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST