BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
GT Haus
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-22-2009, 11:16 AM   #23
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by attila View Post
Is that lift up the front?
They are about 3mm I think. Not a big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by attila View Post
Is it worth getting the Dinan springs?? I mean, for the track.
I like them. A small handling improvement overall.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-22-2009, 12:30 PM   #24
attila
Lieutenant
 
attila's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 GT3RS, 2010 MX-5, 2009 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Omaha, NE

Posts: 513
iTrader: (0)

Thanks,

I'll get the springs with the camber plates. I don't care about lowering the car but I don't want to lift it either, especially not the front.
(I should not have ordered the EDC to begin with.)
By the way I was OK without the DSC last Friday. I was much more cautios but interestingly lap times were almost the same, eventhough I was more agressive with the MDM and felt faster that way.
attila is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-22-2009, 02:24 PM   #25
von_zoom
Captain
 
von_zoom's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Z06
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: North Carolina

Posts: 913
iTrader: (0)

Lucid- camber, thanks.
__________________


Previous Track Toy
von_zoom is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-22-2009, 02:48 PM   #26
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3larson View Post
How bad is the wear on your street tires?
Not enough miles on them after the camber plates to tell yet...
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-23-2009, 06:25 AM   #27
Bubbles
Green Bastard
 
Bubbles's Avatar
 
Drives: ZCP-Powered
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bishop Bend

Posts: 3,542
iTrader: (3)

Lucid you are getting -1.4 camber up front with the stock set-up (pins removed). Did you adjust the toe at all?
Do you camber plates clunk over bumps?
__________________
Bubbles is offline   Cayman Islands
0
Reply With Quote
      06-23-2009, 06:59 AM   #28
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
Lucid you are getting -1.4 camber up front with the stock set-up (pins removed). Did you adjust the toe at all?
Do you camber plates clunk over bumps?
I got -1.95 with the plates. Toe is pretty much at stock spec. No, there is no noise with these plates.

jml reported that he got -1.4 without plates and pins here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192175
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-23-2009, 10:35 AM   #29
66BM
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: ML63 AMG, E92 M3, E60 M5
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hell

Posts: 305
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
You can get ~-1.4 out of the stock fronts with the pins pulled.
1.7 front and 2.0 in the rear according the guys at evo sport. He even sent me the computer screen shot. However, I don't recommend doing it if it is your daily driver as it will tear through the rubber quick.
__________________
66BM is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-23-2009, 10:56 AM   #30
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by manonfire View Post
1.7 front and 2.0 in the rear according the guys at evo sport. He even sent me the computer screen shot. However, I don't recommend doing it if it is your daily driver as it will tear through the rubber quick.
Those sound pretty high. I wonder how they did it. Was the car lowered?
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-23-2009, 11:00 AM   #31
66BM
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: ML63 AMG, E92 M3, E60 M5
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hell

Posts: 305
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Those sound pretty high. I wonder how they did it. Was the car lowered?
I believe it does have eibach springs. I sent them an email asking for more info.
__________________
66BM is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-23-2009, 08:01 PM   #32
GT3 Tim
Moderator
 
GT3 Tim's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA

Posts: 1,893
iTrader: (0)

Excess toe will kill a tire much faster than excess camber....FYI

I am curious what toe settings you guys are running. Has anybody tried a bit of toe-out (yeah, I know its a tire killer, but the turn-in should be fantastic -- at least it was on the GT3)?
__________________
Tim (apparently likes "3" cars)
E90 M3 -- Current ride
2004 GT3 -- Sold
1997 M3/4 -- Sold
1995 M3 -- Sold
GT3 Tim is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-23-2009, 10:24 PM   #33
aus
Major General
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

Posts: 6,962
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by attila View Post
(I should not have ordered the EDC to begin with.)
By the way I was OK without the DSC last Friday. I was much more cautios but interestingly lap times were almost the same, eventhough I was more agressive with the MDM and felt faster that way.
The problem is, you can't get MDM and NOT get EDC. Damn you BMW.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
aus is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-24-2009, 06:06 AM   #34
Bubbles
Green Bastard
 
Bubbles's Avatar
 
Drives: ZCP-Powered
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bishop Bend

Posts: 3,542
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I got -1.95 with the plates. Toe is pretty much at stock spec. No, there is no noise with these plates.

jml reported that he got -1.4 without plates and pins here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192175
Ok, thanks.
__________________
Bubbles is offline   Cayman Islands
0
Reply With Quote
      06-24-2009, 06:45 AM   #35
8INTO3=M
Private
 
Drives: M3 Coupe -- Interlagos Blue
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: MMMaryland

Posts: 87
iTrader: (1)

Camber maxed @ -1.3 & -2.0

With stock springs (...stock everything) my shop pulled the front pins and got to -1.3 IN FRONT and -2.0 IN the REAR.

So far, with 3 track days tire wear is fairly even on my RA-1's (275/35/18 square).

Understeer is reduced dramatically and rotation is nice.
8INTO3=M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2009, 10:22 AM   #36
attila
Lieutenant
 
attila's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 GT3RS, 2010 MX-5, 2009 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Omaha, NE

Posts: 513
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8INTO3=M View Post
With stock springs (...stock everything) my shop pulled the front pins and got to -1.3 IN FRONT and -2.0 IN the REAR.

So far, with 3 track days tire wear is fairly even on my RA-1's (275/35/18 square).

Understeer is reduced dramatically and rotation is nice.


That's nice, I am planning to do the same. By the way how "pulling out the pins" actually accomplished?? Do you have to just grab them and pull, or you need to unscrew them??
attila is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-28-2009, 09:04 AM   #37
attila
Lieutenant
 
attila's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 GT3RS, 2010 MX-5, 2009 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Omaha, NE

Posts: 513
iTrader: (0)

Can anyone post a picture of the "so called pin" in the strout tower. I found a shop who is willing to do the alignment of my specs (if possible) if I willing to pull the pin myself. I took of the EDC cover and I saw a metal disc top of the shock but not the pin.
Thanks
attila is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-28-2009, 09:55 AM   #38
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by attila View Post
Can anyone post a picture of the "so called pin" in the strout tower. I found a shop who is willing to do the alignment of my specs (if possible) if I willing to pull the pin myself. I took of the EDC cover and I saw a metal disc top of the shock but not the pin.
Thanks
The pin is really a small screw on the strut tower. It is under the bracket that is connected to the strut bars. I don't have pics for the E92 M3, but here are some for the E46 M3:

http://m3.madrussian.net/diy_camber.shtml

If the guy at the shop is asking you to remove the pins and doesn't know how to do that himself, take it somewhere else who knows what he is doing as he might screw up your alignment altogether. The dealer should be able to do this for you. It's not a crime to have the alignment the way you want although they might recommend against more negative camber than stock up front due to tire wear on the street, etc.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-28-2009, 10:08 AM   #39
attila
Lieutenant
 
attila's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 GT3RS, 2010 MX-5, 2009 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Omaha, NE

Posts: 513
iTrader: (0)

Thanks a lot, Lucid!!
My dealer is not willing to remove the pins, since "that's not recommended by BMW". Unfortunately, I could not find anyone in Omaha, who is familiar with the e92 M3. I would not even call the dealership an expert service on the M3.
Thanks again!!!
attila is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-28-2009, 10:25 AM   #40
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by attila View Post
My dealer is not willing to remove the pins, since "that's not recommended by BMW". Unfortunately, I could not find anyone in Omaha, who is familiar with the e92 M3. I would not even call the dealership an expert service on the M3.
That's interesting as I think others have gotten their dealers to do it.

I guess there aren't a whole lot of BMW shops in your area. Too bad, and good luck. As you can see in the DIY I referenced, it shouldn't be too hard.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-28-2009, 07:57 PM   #41
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,601
iTrader: (5)

I think a nice median would be -2 up front and -1.5 out back for street and track.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2009, 01:05 PM   #42
e46e92love
Brigadier General
 
e46e92love's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 ///M3; X3 (wife's)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The East Side of Things

Posts: 3,026
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to e46e92love
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Yes, this is my DD. And, yes, I have a 265/295 setup. -1.9 camber up front reduced understeer nicely, and the car does rotate more easily. I'm pretty happy with it.

-1.75 rear was too much. I was heating up the inside edges of both tires, and lost some grip, but that might have been a pressure issue. I had that dialed back to -1.4.
First and foremost, this is an awesome thread, and thank you Lucid as I have been tracking your reviews/comments on good track setups on multiple threads.

Do you find the extra negative camber really increases wear on your street tires?

Now to a bit of OT: your 265/295 setup, that is on your track setup not your stock 19s street setup correct? If its the stock 19s, aren't those tires too big for stock wheel thus creating bubbling/bulging at the edges and leading to lest responsiveness on turn in/lane change/etc?

Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread, very informative for those of us with little experience with adjusting our toe/camber for tracks time.

Cheers,
e46e92
__________________

"...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan.
e46e92love is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2009, 01:08 PM   #43
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Do you find the extra negative camber really increases wear on your street tires?
In theory it should, but I haven't had the plates on long enough to see meaningful wear yet. I'll report back at the end of the summer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Now to a bit of OT: your 265/295 setup, that is on your track setup not your stock 19s street setup correct? If its the stock 19s, aren't those tires too big for stock wheel thus creating bubbling/bulging at the edges and leading to lest responsiveness on turn in/lane change/etc?
That's my track setup, but they are on my 18x9.5/18x10.5 track wheels that are 1" wider at the front and the back than the stock wheels, so no issues there.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-03-2009, 01:50 PM   #44
jml
Captain
 
jml's Avatar
 
Drives: E90M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX

Posts: 950
iTrader: (2)

When they removed the pins and aligned, one side was -1.7 and the other -1.4, so I had them match both sides at -1.4, and the rear at -2 (could go more). This is on an EDC equipped car.

I talked to james clay about it and he said he thinks the revised geometry on the front strut, especially under turning, has really helped traction and tire wear. That's why he doesn't think the car needs camber plates (or sways for that matter). I'm on my 4th set of NT01s (275 square on 9.5" rims) and while I have to flip them once to get the max life, as long as I run the pressure about 40psi back in the garage after a cool down lap, they wear pretty well. The track I run is not very tight - I'm sure that helps.
__________________

Britax Carseat | Diaper Kit | Redneck Cutouts | Turner Studs | Bassified Individual Audio
jml is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:55 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST