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      05-30-2009, 03:34 PM   #23
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Or under a flip up lid on top of the gear lever. Rat-at-at-at-at.

It is as bland as the C class. I wouldn't go as far as to say ugly though. Most MB cars are just boring looking cars. The SL isn't bad but it's aging a bit but other than that I can't think of a single car they make that I would want to own or look at.
Have you seen the redesigned 2009 SL

Its the best looking luxury roadster period!

The 600 and 65 Series Mercedes will always be at a superior level then its competition.
Yes, I mean the S/CL/SL 600 and S/CL/SL 65 AMG.

The engineering in these 6 cars is top notch and although the design of these 3 might not appeal to everyone's senses, they are the best allrounders in there class when it comes to luxury and performance!
I think the new SL is the best looking out of the 3 models (S, CL, SL),
although I would say SL>S>CL.
The new CL just doesnt have the appeal of the old one

And, like they say once you go black you never come back...although a cheesy line but it couldn't be more true for the AMG Black series cars, which are at another level beyond the rest of its competition!
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      05-30-2009, 04:52 PM   #24
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You do realise that the 2009 Model E-Class generation was designed during the chrysler era

and the only difference for MY2009 is that the components were assembled by workers working under 100% mercedes management, who ironically enough probably also worked during the chrysler era! and on top of that components used should be pretty much the same (80-90% atleast) unless there was a facelift b/w the chrysler and modern merc era....probably not!

So to be very honest the new mercedes e-class will be produced components wise from the ground-up by the mercedes division. and perhaps when it was designed, there might have been some feedback from the chrysler division which explains the hideousness rear tail lights and the weird front end...
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Have you seen the redesigned 2009 SL

Its the best looking luxury roadster period!

The 600 and 65 Series Mercedes will always be at a superior level then its competition.
Yes, I mean the S/CL/SL 600 and S/CL/SL 65 AMG.

The engineering in these 6 cars is top notch and although the design of these 3 might not appeal to everyone's senses, they are the best allrounders in there class when it comes to luxury and performance!
I think the new SL is the best looking out of the 3 models (S, CL, SL),
although I would say SL>S>CL.
The new CL just doesnt have the appeal of the old one

And, like they say once you go black you never come back...although a cheesy line but it couldn't be more true for the AMG Black series cars, which are at another level beyond the rest of its competition!
Yeah, no doubt that's all true. But I rationalize it the other way just to make it work for me. But despite that, the newer models of the W211 are substantially improved. And yes, all new models (i.e., W212) will have better technology and (presumably/hopefully) a better build.

But car buying is such a subjective and individual choice. No one is ever being 100% pragmatic and rational. The car enthusiast world would no longer exist as we know it, nor would this forum exist, if that were the case.

I chose the W211 because it works for me, not because it was the "best" choice. And that's how we all buy cars. I thought of the S but it was too big for me and I couldn't rationalize (in my world view) spending that sort of money on a daily driver, either as a lease or a buy. I'd rather spend it elsewhere. And the SL doesn't work as a daily for me. And so I waited for the W212 to appear, and ended up with the W211. The E63 is my best choice for a daily.

So, we choose what works for us at any given moment in our history. Usually not rational and normally not very pragmatic.

As case in point, I have a 993 that I have considered selling for a new 997. It's not as fast as a 997, it's not as advanced as a 997. But I prefer the way it drives over the 997. Only because I like the "old school" P-car feel (I've owned them before); more raw and visceral to me. So, I'm holding on to it. But a lot of people focus only on the new stuff from Stuttgart.

Different strokes for different folks. Which is a good thing. Do what gives you, and only you, pleasure in life. That's all that matters.
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      05-31-2009, 02:28 PM   #25
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Yeah, no doubt that's all true. But I rationalize it the other way just to make it work for me. But despite that, the newer models of the W211 are substantially improved. And yes, all new models (i.e., W212) will have better technology and (presumably/hopefully) a better build.

But car buying is such a subjective and individual choice. No one is ever being 100% pragmatic and rational. The car enthusiast world would no longer exist as we know it, nor would this forum exist, if that were the case.

I chose the W211 because it works for me, not because it was the "best" choice. And that's how we all buy cars. I thought of the S but it was too big for me and I couldn't rationalize (in my world view) spending that sort of money on a daily driver, either as a lease or a buy. I'd rather spend it elsewhere. And the SL doesn't work as a daily for me. And so I waited for the W212 to appear, and ended up with the W211. The E63 is my best choice for a daily.

So, we choose what works for us at any given moment in our history. Usually not rational and normally not very pragmatic.

As case in point, I have a 993 that I have considered selling for a new 997. It's not as fast as a 997, it's not as advanced as a 997. But I prefer the way it drives over the 997. Only because I like the "old school" P-car feel (I've owned them before); more raw and visceral to me. So, I'm holding on to it. But a lot of people focus only on the new stuff from Stuttgart.

Different strokes for different folks. Which is a good thing. Do what gives you, and only you, pleasure in life. That's all that matters.
+1 I agree with you, well written there

Just for the record, I also like some of the old stuff Afalterbach and Stuggart have produced.

The C32 AMG was one hell of a car, and I wouldnt mind owning that baby again as I had her a couple of years ago! She was a sleeper, dressed like a reg. c class, she would fly to 60 whenever i put the hammer down.

The other classic from stuggart is the E38 V12 750iL that we had a while back, I think the best designed 7 series period! and also drove very well for its technology and time. Not to say the 760 Individual is a slouch, but the degree of computer interference is much more evident in the E66 vs E38.

So you are absolutely correct, to each his own
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      05-31-2009, 02:46 PM   #26
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Hyundai fo sho...

And if you need a good laugh check my post on the 5er GT...(#17)

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...54#post5231554

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      05-31-2009, 03:06 PM   #27
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Hello, new here.

Just got an M3 after spending the last year and a half with a C63 AMG. The only area where the Mercedes is superior is in the noise it makes IMO.
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      06-01-2009, 01:56 PM   #28
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Hello, new here.

Just got an M3 after spending the last year and a half with a C63 AMG. The only area where the Mercedes is superior is in the noise it makes IMO.
Figure I chime in here again. I think the members should read this thread and my post. http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268072
You simply made a wrong buying decision; you bought a car you truly weren't 100% sure about. Also you are the first member I have seen on both this forum and the MB forums that has ever left a C63 for a M3 (not saying it has never happened). However there are numerous posts on the MB forums of C63 owners who dumped there M3 in favor of the C63. Good luck with the new car.
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      06-01-2009, 02:19 PM   #29
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Or under a flip up lid on top of the gear lever. Rat-at-at-at-at.

It is as bland as the C class. I wouldn't go as far as to say ugly though. [/b] Most MB cars are just boring looking cars. The SL isn't bad but it's aging a bit but other than that I can't think of a single car they make that I would want to own or look at.[/b]
Had to much of the Fanboy Koolaid? Coming from 3 previous BMWS (02 X5 4.6is, 03 x5 4.6is, 04 M3) I can say honestly you are completely drunk on the koolaid. If I had greater financial resources I would own a M3 as well so I could have the both of best worlds. However I can only have one and I made my choice with no regrets (aside from being on now my 3rd set of rear tires with almost 15K on the clock ). Atleast Mercedes has created some speciality/exotic cars in terms of the SLR SL65 Black Series and CLK63 Black Series. Now I know those cars are 10, 5, and 2 times the price as a M3 but still what competition in that market does BMW offer? Jeez if even a CLS63 or SL63 doesn't get your attention you have some really high standards. I would love to see if all the forum members here were given a choice to have one car, regardless of cost that BMW and Mercedes make, I'm willing to bet more people will be going with the three point star. I just don't understand how you can bash the majority of the MB product line with no real justification.
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      06-01-2009, 03:44 PM   #30
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I would love to see if all the forum members here were given a choice to have one car, regardless of cost that BMW and Mercedes make, I'm willing to bet more people will be going with the three point star.
I'd like to try the CLK63 black series myself.....and I bleed BMW M.....I've never been a big fan of MB....(mostly due to witnessing all of the trouble encountered by a few of my friends who have them)..so it is subjective...and may be isolated incidents... However, as an auto enthusiast..I do appreciate the AMG series cars from MB....especially the black series. Very nice cars indeed...and I wouldn't mind having a BS on day....second in my mind though to of course.. the M!! hehe
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      06-01-2009, 09:16 PM   #31
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Had to much of the Fanboy Koolaid? Coming from 3 previous BMWS (02 X5 4.6is, 03 x5 4.6is, 04 M3) I can say honestly you are completely drunk on the koolaid. If I had greater financial resources I would own a M3 as well so I could have the both of best worlds. However I can only have one and I made my choice with no regrets (aside from being on now my 3rd set of rear tires with almost 15K on the clock ). Atleast Mercedes has created some speciality/exotic cars in terms of the SLR SL65 Black Series and CLK63 Black Series. Now I know those cars are 10, 5, and 2 times the price as a M3 but still what competition in that market does BMW offer? Jeez if even a CLS63 or SL63 doesn't get your attention you have some really high standards. I would love to see if all the forum members here were given a choice to have one car, regardless of cost that BMW and Mercedes make, I'm willing to bet more people will be going with the three point star. I just don't understand how you can bash the majority of the MB product line with no real justification.
I'm talking looks alone. I'm not commenting on abilities of Benz'zzzz. To my eye they don't look remotely good. The SL was nice but the update has actually ruined it a bit IMO.

The Black series of cars are totally nonsensical vehicles. There is NO justification for the hike in price over the normal AMG version of each vehicle. Minuscule hikes in power and race suspension do not a hypercar make. They are basically priced in beyond some seriously exotic machines that are far more special and more able. Pointless again IMHO. Everyone to their own but I would have a long list of exotics well ahead of a black series.

In fact. I have no doubt you could improve the car far better going directly to third party tuners (maybe brabus?) and end up with a lot of money left over.

P.S.
The CLS is one of the most ridiculous looking things I've ever seen. I looks like a banana on it's side.
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      06-01-2009, 10:38 PM   #32
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I'm talking looks alone. I'm not commenting on abilities of Benz'zzzz. To my eye they don't look remotely good. The SL was nice but the update has actually ruined it a bit IMO.

The Black series of cars are totally nonsensical vehicles. There is NO justification for the hike in price over the normal AMG version of each vehicle. Minuscule hikes in power and race suspension do not a hypercar make. They are basically priced in beyond some seriously exotic machines that are far more special and more able. Pointless again IMHO. Everyone to their own but I would have a long list of exotics well ahead of a black series.

In fact. I have no doubt you could improve the car far better going directly to third party tuners (maybe brabus?) and end up with a lot of money left over.

P.S.
The CLS is one of the most ridiculous looking things I've ever seen. I looks like a banana on it's side.




How many "exotics" go for $138K?
My CLK63 Black is a pretty great vehicle. I picked it over a 997 Turbo and an R8. And the CLS is great looking car.
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      06-02-2009, 07:32 AM   #33
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How many "exotics" go for $138K?
My CLK63 Black is a pretty great vehicle. I picked it over a 997 Turbo and an R8. And the CLS is great looking car.
Listen to what you said there. 138k for a CLK???
I forgot to look at your sig to see where you are but I'm assuming the US which means add another 10-15k on for Canada.
It's a CLK63 with a body kit that will be personal taste (i actually prefer the looks of the blacks to the non), a fancy diff that makes the car weigh more than the standard AMG and a lower power to weight ratio? Personally I don't see the point but everyone to their own as they say. I'd take a 911 turbo/GT3 every time and be happy. BUT THAT'S JUST ME. I WAS ASKED AND ANSWERED HONESTLY. You like them. I don't. The world continues to turn.

I never said any of the Benz line-up was crap but I answered the question that was asked. I don't like any current Benz from a visual point of view. Visual. IMHO they ruined the SL with the over fussy detailing on the update.

If we all liked the same shape for a car there would be a very dull selection out there. If you like your Benz that's great. It would be a real pisser if you paid all that money and didn't like it

MikeG: When I read your post I just saw "Drunk on Koolaid" I didn't see the fanboy comment. Where was the fanboy comment in there?? I commented on looks of a few mercs. You have no idea how funny that is to me. All my life I have hated BMW's. All of them. This is the first one I've liked the look of enough to buy. In Ireland they're overpriced, under equipped status symbols driven by people with nipples on the top of their heads (tits). In recent years Merc drivers have joined that crew too but they tend to be the equivalent of your Cadillac drivers (old tits). But the actual post was actually a joke following on from 98octane suggesting a big red button to set everything to maximum. I was implying a trigger on the gear lever like in planes. (of some mercs for that matter but I was thinking planes at the time).

Having said that. I suggest you go to an AMG board if you only want to hear nice things about your car. This is an M3 site after all. You're more likely to find M3 fans here as they tend to be people that have chosen to buy one over an AMG. It's not like M3 drivers accidentally bought one and then said Oh Shit I meant to buy an AMG.

P.S.
Ii still don't like the looks of the CLS Rapist. It looks melted
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      06-02-2009, 08:31 AM   #34
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Listen to what you said there. 138k for a CLK???
I forgot to look at your sig to see where you are but I'm assuming the US which means add another 10-15k on for Canada.
It's a CLK63 with a body kit that will be personal taste (i actually prefer the looks of the blacks to the non), a fancy diff that makes the car weigh more than the standard AMG and a lower power to weight ratio? Personally I don't see the point but everyone to their own as they say. I'd take a 911 turbo/GT3 every time and be happy. BUT THAT'S JUST ME. I WAS ASKED AND ANSWERED HONESTLY. You like them. I don't. The world continues to turn.


Firstly, a standard CLK63 wasn't on sale in the US, had I wanted one (and I didn't). And it didn't have a lower power to weight ratio.

Secondly, the CLK63 Black is more than a new differential and greater power.

Thirdly, it was a low production car. So of course there was a premium involved. Can you say GT2?


The Black Series CLK is a great car other than the transmission. And it was hands down my favorite in that price range.


As far as the CLS is concerned I will just restate that I think you're mistaken.
It is a great looking vehicle. And the fact it sold well and that a bunch of other companies jumped on the bandwagon to get a competitor out shows I'm not alone.

Full disclosure- I owned a CLS55
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      06-02-2009, 09:05 AM   #35
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Firstly, a standard CLK63 wasn't on sale in the US, had I wanted one (and I didn't). And it didn't have a lower power to weight ratio.

Secondly, the CLK63 Black is more than a new differential and greater power.

Thirdly, it was a low production car. So of course there was a premium involved. Can you say GT2?


The Black Series CLK is a great car other than the transmission. And it was hands down my favorite in that price range.


As far as the CLS is concerned I will just restate that I think you're mistaken.
It is a great looking vehicle. And the fact it sold well and that a bunch of other companies jumped on the bandwagon to get a competitor out shows I'm not alone.

Full disclosure- I owned a CLS55
I think you're mistaken. The CLS is manky looking

This discussion is just proving the point that everyone has different taste. There is no right or wrong when it comes to cars. You buy what you like and enjoy it. It only becomes a problem when other peoples opinions of your car bother you.

I couldn't care less who likes M3's or not. I didn't like them until this model. I don't think any less of you for preferring or buying a Merc Black. Horses for courses.

I know the Black isn't as simple as that. I just couldn't type all the changes. I agree the auto box is a big letdown. One of the main reasons I wouldn't ever buy a Merc to be honest. Lexus seem to have made a nice compromise with IS-F on the speed of shifting at least although a little many gears I suspect. I still maintain it's overpriced even as a limited run. I can only look at prices in the UK and the Black is almost double the price of the equivalent AMG. I just can't see the justification (I know you didn't have the choice which is different). Again, for the Merc Fanboys, I'm not knocking the cars just expressing thoughts.

I did find the fanboy comment from MikeG amusing though. That was funny. For a couple of reasons. It's an M3 site and secondly I never mentioned the M3 never mind compared it to the Merc.
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      06-03-2009, 03:23 PM   #36
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I'm talking looks alone. I'm not commenting on abilities of Benz'zzzz. To my eye they don't look remotely good. The SL was nice but the update has actually ruined it a bit IMO.

The Black series of cars are totally nonsensical vehicles. There is NO justification for the hike in price over the normal AMG version of each vehicle. Minuscule hikes in power and race suspension do not a hypercar make. They are basically priced in beyond some seriously exotic machines that are far more special and more able. Pointless again IMHO. Everyone to their own but I would have a long list of exotics well ahead of a black series.

In fact. I have no doubt you could improve the car far better going directly to third party tuners (maybe brabus?) and end up with a lot of money left over.

P.S.
The CLS is one of the most ridiculous looking things I've ever seen. I looks like a banana on it's side.
I’m trying to make some sense of your comments on the Black Series. First off, there has only been 3 Black Series versions ever. CLK63 BS SL65 BS and the SLK55 BS which was never offered in the NA market. I doubt you are aware there isn’t a Black Series edition for each AMG model because your post wouldn’t lead anyone to think you do. With that being said, any knowledgeable non-bias car enthusiast can tell you how drastically different the 3 Black Series models are from there “base” AMG model. You clearly state in your post that Black Series models differentiate themselves by only increase in HP/TQ and basic suspension parts (springs, shocks). You’re missing a sizeable percentage of the complete package that makes up Black Series models which again supports my argument you are uniformed on the topic. Also, the only Black Series with a MSRP in the exotic range is the SL65 Black Series at $300K. Now I can see if you rather purchase a Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin rather then a SL65 Black series at that price fine. But the CLK63 Black Series at $138K isn’t in the exotic price range unless your talking several years old used market. With that being said can anyone on these boards tell me how many times they seen a Black Series on the road? I seen more Ferraris, Lambos, and Astons as compared to the one CLK 63 Black Series I ever saw again not including at the dealerships. Coupled with the extremely low production numbers this supports how rare these cars truly are which in many true enthusiasts eyes is a factor in owning one.

Listen anyone can debate whether the MSRP doesn’t justify the performance of these cars. I agree in some ways the price doesn’t equal the performance of some of these cars. Yes it’s possible to outperform Black Series models with the help of Renntech, Kleemann, and VRP. However there is no mod that can compensate for exclusivity which the Black Series will always have.
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      06-03-2009, 03:37 PM   #37
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Listen to what you said there. 138k for a CLK???
I forgot to look at your sig to see where you are but I'm assuming the US which means add another 10-15k on for Canada.
It's a CLK63 with a body kit that will be personal taste (i actually prefer the looks of the blacks to the non), a fancy diff that makes the car weigh more than the standard AMG and a lower power to weight ratio? Personally I don't see the point but everyone to their own as they say. I'd take a 911 turbo/GT3 every time and be happy. BUT THAT'S JUST ME. I WAS ASKED AND ANSWERED HONESTLY. You like them. I don't. The world continues to turn.

I never said any of the Benz line-up was crap but I answered the question that was asked. I don't like any current Benz from a visual point of view. Visual. IMHO they ruined the SL with the over fussy detailing on the update.

If we all liked the same shape for a car there would be a very dull selection out there. If you like your Benz that's great. It would be a real pisser if you paid all that money and didn't like it

MikeG: When I read your post I just saw "Drunk on Koolaid" I didn't see the fanboy comment. Where was the fanboy comment in there?? I commented on looks of a few mercs. You have no idea how funny that is to me. All my life I have hated BMW's. All of them. This is the first one I've liked the look of enough to buy. In Ireland they're overpriced, under equipped status symbols driven by people with nipples on the top of their heads (tits). In recent years Merc drivers have joined that crew too but they tend to be the equivalent of your Cadillac drivers (old tits). But the actual post was actually a joke following on from 98octane suggesting a big red button to set everything to maximum. I was implying a trigger on the gear lever like in planes. (of some mercs for that matter but I was thinking planes at the time).

Having said that. I suggest you go to an AMG board if you only want to hear nice things about your car. This is an M3 site after all. You're more likely to find M3 fans here as they tend to be people that have chosen to buy one over an AMG. It's not like M3 drivers accidentally bought one and then said Oh Shit I meant to buy an AMG.

P.S.
Ii still don't like the looks of the CLS Rapist. It looks melted
It just seems to me that some of your “opinions” are actually being communicated as “facts”. Like your arguments on the Black Series which justify your lack of knowledge on those cars and typical of the “Fanboy” stereotype. From your post I can tell you I owned more BMWs then you have, and no not regular versions either. That being said, show me a post of my track record of me bashing, putting down the M3 let alone another BMW. If you can find me one I’ll gladly be a man and say “well you got me there”. I have a feeling you will be looking for awhile.
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      06-03-2009, 03:40 PM   #38
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I’m trying to make some sense of your comments on the Black Series. First off, there has only been 3 Black Series versions ever. CLK63 BS SL65 BS and the SLK55 BS which was never offered in the NA market. I doubt you are aware there isn’t a Black Series edition for each AMG model because your post wouldn’t lead anyone to think you do. With that being said, any knowledgeable non-bias car enthusiast can tell you how drastically different the 3 Black Series models are from there “base” AMG model. You clearly state in your post that Black Series models differentiate themselves by only increase in HP/TQ and basic suspension parts (springs, shocks). You’re missing a sizeable percentage of the complete package that makes up Black Series models which again supports my argument you are uniformed on the topic. Also, the only Black Series with a MSRP in the exotic range is the SL65 Black Series at $300K. Now I can see if you rather purchase a Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin rather then a SL65 Black series at that price fine. But the CLK63 Black Series at $138K isn’t in the exotic price range unless your talking several years old used market. With that being said can anyone on these boards tell me how many times they seen a Black Series on the road? I seen more Ferraris, Lambos, and Astons as compared to the one CLK 63 Black Series I ever saw again not including at the dealerships. Coupled with the extremely low production numbers this supports how rare these cars truly are which in many true enthusiasts eyes is a factor in owning one.

Listen anyone can debate whether the MSRP doesn’t justify the performance of these cars. I agree in some ways the price doesn’t equal the performance of some of these cars. Yes it’s possible to outperform Black Series models with the help of Renntech, Kleemann, and VRP. However there is no mod that can compensate for exclusivity which the Black Series will always have.
I did say in the following post that I know there is a hell of a lot more to it than suspension mods. I did actually mention the heavy duty diff but wasn't going to add the whole list of changes. I was just saying that I didn't feel the mods justified the price. Plain and simple and I still stand by that. Just my opinion.

Rarity is no good reason to buy a car either (again IMHO). In fact that shouldn't even come into it if you are judging the car on abilities. That's just posing. If a car is dynamically excellent then what does it matter how many there are unless you just want to be able to say you have something no one else has?

I'm well aware of the models available as black in Europe but not here so I didn't want to list them in case I got shot down for saying an extra one.
I'm also working on price from the UK and not the US where, for example, the CLK Black is only fractionally under double the price of the std AMG version at ukp100,000 which is in GT3 territory and not a long way off F430/Gallardo when it came out (they have since gone up a bit).

Personally (just me) I would take any of the 3 of them even slightly used over any of the Black models. My point AGAIN is that cars are a personal thing and everyone likes their own choice. At no point have I knocked the abilities of mercs or anyone on here for choosing to buy one. I simply stated my opinion on the looks and later on what I see as manufacturer overcharging.

In the past I've knocked BMW for overcharging for the M3 in Ireland (equiv us$170,000). The fact that it's soooo much cheaper here meant that was moot and I bought one as at this price I see it as good value. The CLK AMG/IS-F are also good value here (same as M3 in Ireland) but I think the Black is not good value. If you or someone else thinks it is then great. Buy it and enjoy it. I think your GT3 on order is far better value.

I would also like to think that judging by your choice of cars that rarity was last on your list when you bought the black. You certainly don't sound like the posing, Hollywood type that buys to show off.
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      06-03-2009, 03:52 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by MikeG_C63_AMG View Post
It just seems to me that some of your “opinions” are actually being communicated as “facts”. Like your arguments on the Black Series which justify your lack of knowledge on those cars and typical of the “Fanboy” stereotype. From your post I can tell you I owned more BMWs then you have, and no not regular versions either. That being said, show me a post of my track record of me bashing, putting down the M3 let alone another BMW. If you can find me one I’ll gladly be a man and say “well you got me there”. I have a feeling you will be looking for awhile.
What on earth are you talking about???
You keep saying I'm a fanboy??? I have hated BMW's until this one. Never liked them. Never wanted on. I made no comments on the M3 begin better than Merc's or any other car. Go do your little search on my posts. I've never said it was better than anything.

I'm not sure how many times I have to say IMHO/Just my opinion etc for it to be clear I am stating MY OPINION and not facts.

Here's a clear fact for you. I DON'T LIKE THE SHAPE OF ANY CURRENT MERC. Calling me a fanboy won't change that. I ONLY LIKE THE SHAPE OF THE M3 FROM THE BMW RANGE (maybe M6 in the right colour a bit).

I don't give a shite what cars you or anyone else has owned. I have said nothing on here to suggest I am a fanboy. I can guarantee you that if you've owned more than 1 BMW then you've owned more than me. I never wanted to own one before, so I didn't. I bought cars I liked and didn't get upset if someone else didn't like them.

I can assure you I know a hell of a lot about the Black series and a shit load of other cars I will never own or want to own. I live and breathe cars. Have done since I could speak to ask about them. All I read are car related mags/books etc. And knowing what I know doesn't change the fact that I think Merc have overcharged for the Black series. Porsche are overcharging for the GT2 IMHO (read those last 4 letters pls) but I'm still not knocking the car or anyone buying one and it doesn't mean I know any less about one than you or anyone else.

And once more just for so even you won't miss it.

EVERYTHING I HAVE SAID IS MY OPINION. ME. MINE. NOT ANYONE ELSES (ALTHOUGH IT MIGHT BE SO I SHOULD SAY THAT). I HAVE BEEN COMMENTING ON THE SHAPE OF MERCS AND NOT THE ABILITIES OR THE OWNERS. I THINK THE BLACK SERIES ARE OVERPRICED AND WOULD TAKE A GT3 FOR THAT MONEY WITHOUT HAVING TO TAKE A BREATH TO DECIDE. ME. NOT YOU. ME. THAT LAST BIT IS A FACT NOT AN OPINION. I WOULD TAKE THE GT3.

I AM NOT NOW NOR HAVE I EVER BEEN A FANBOY OF BMW OR ANY OTHER MANUFACTURER. I DO NOT NOW NOR HAVE I EVER THOUGHT MY CAR (ANY OF THEM) WERE BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSES EVEN WHEN THEY WERE.

Now is that clear enough for you?
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      06-03-2009, 04:02 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoreHead View Post
I did say in the following post that I know there is a hell of a lot more to it than suspension mods. I did actually mention the heavy duty diff but wasn't going to add the whole list of changes. I was just saying that I didn't feel the mods justified the price. Plain and simple and I still stand by that. Just my opinion.

Rarity is no good reason to buy a car either (again IMHO). In fact that shouldn't even come into it if you are judging the car on abilities. That's just posing. If a car is dynamically excellent then what does it matter how many there are unless you just want to be able to say you have something no one else has?

I'm well aware of the models available as black in Europe but not here so I didn't want to list them in case I got shot down for saying an extra one.
I'm also working on price from the UK and not the US where, for example, the CLK Black is only fractionally under double the price of the std AMG version at ukp100,000 which is in GT3 territory and not a long way off F430/Gallardo when it came out (they have since gone up a bit).

Personally (just me) I would take any of the 3 of them even slightly used over any of the Black models. My point AGAIN is that cars are a personal thing and everyone likes their own choice. At no point have I knocked the abilities of mercs or anyone on here for choosing to buy one. I simply stated my opinion on the looks and later on what I see as manufacturer overcharging.

In the past I've knocked BMW for overcharging for the M3 in Ireland (equiv us$170,000). The fact that it's soooo much cheaper here meant that was moot and I bought one as at this price I see it as good value. The CLK AMG/IS-F are also good value here (same as M3 in Ireland) but I think the Black is not good value. If you or someone else thinks it is then great. Buy it and enjoy it. I think your GT3 on order is far better value.

I would also like to think that judging by your choice of cars that rarity was last on your list when you bought the black. You certainly don't sound like the posing, Hollywood type that buys to show off.
The only thing I will agree upon with you is that cars is a personal taste. To each his own fine. Also I understand comparing US prices to European/Canadian markets changes the game when it comes to the finances.

I don't own a Black Series first off. Never claimed to. If you consider being able to afford a luxury high performance sedan while living in a new building in one those most demanding location in NJ in my age bracket while working for the #3 defense contractor in the world then I'M GUILTY AS CHARGED. Crucify me baby for going to school and working to be successful and independent while being fully aware that at any moment in my life everything can be gone just like that. Here I am thinking posing was what takes place at the Jersey shore and when people own expensive cars while they live at home with there parents.
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      06-03-2009, 04:05 PM   #41
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Quote:
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What on earth are you talking about???
You keep saying I'm a fanboy??? I have hated BMW's until this one. Never liked them. Never wanted on. I made no comments on the M3 begin better than Merc's or any other car. Go do your little search on my posts. I've never said it was better than anything.

I'm not sure how many times I have to say IMHO/Just my opinion etc for it to be clear I am stating MY OPINION and not facts.

Here's a clear fact for you. I DON'T LIKE THE SHAPE OF ANY CURRENT MERC. Calling me a fanboy won't change that. I ONLY LIKE THE SHAPE OF THE M3 FROM THE BMW RANGE (maybe M6 in the right colour a bit).

I don't give a shite what cars you or anyone else has owned. I have said nothing on here to suggest I am a fanboy. I can guarantee you that if you've owned more than 1 BMW then you've owned more than me. I never wanted to own one before, so I didn't. I bought cars I liked and didn't get upset if someone else didn't like them.

I can assure you I know a hell of a lot about the Black series and a shit load of other cars I will never own or want to own. I live and breathe cars. Have done since I could speak to ask about them. All I read are car related mags/books etc. And knowing what I know doesn't change the fact that I think Merc have overcharged for the Black series. Porsche are overcharging for the GT2 IMHO (read those last 4 letters pls) but I'm still not knocking the car or anyone buying one and it doesn't mean I know any less about one than you or anyone else.

And once more just for so even you won't miss it.

EVERYTHING I HAVE SAID IS MY OPINION. ME. MINE. NOT ANYONE ELSES (ALTHOUGH IT MIGHT BE SO I SHOULD SAY THAT). I HAVE BEEN COMMENTING ON THE SHAPE OF MERCS AND NOT THE ABILITIES OR THE OWNERS. I THINK THE BLACK SERIES ARE OVERPRICED AND WOULD TAKE A GT3 FOR THAT MONEY WITHOUT HAVING TO TAKE A BREATH TO DECIDE. ME. NOT YOU. ME. THAT LAST BIT IS A FACT NOT AN OPINION. I WOULD TAKE THE GT3.

I AM NOT NOW NOR HAVE I EVER BEEN A FANBOY OF BMW OR ANY OTHER MANUFACTURER. I DO NOT NOW NOR HAVE I EVER THOUGHT MY CAR (ANY OF THEM) WERE BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSES EVEN WHEN THEY WERE.

Now is that clear enough for you?
Sure have one on me.
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      06-03-2009, 04:37 PM   #42
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Sure have one on me.
oh listen. I've spent 12-14hours a day since saturday stripping wallpaper, painting and pulling up carpets. I'll be having more than one. It's my birthday on saturday and despite the rumours the Irish can't drink more than anyone else. We just do.
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      06-03-2009, 05:21 PM   #43
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Everybody always tries to defend the car they currently own. It's human nature but it's a veiled reality. And it gets tired really fast.

I've owned them all: BMW; MB; Porsche. They all worked for me at each given moment in my life. They all have really bad points and they all have really good points.

Choose what works for you at this moment in time. And quit your barking. You all made a fine choice of cars. Stop defending them and enjoy them.
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      06-04-2009, 03:38 PM   #44
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Going to test drive this bad boy in a few days

It's way out of my price range but since my dealer is playing nice with me (and after this gets prepped) I get to drive it. I'll probably just go around the block but it'll be the coolest 1/4 of a mile I've driven.
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