BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis
 
Racewerkz Engineering
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-06-2009, 10:45 AM   #177
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
badfish covered it pretty well here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ht#post2756528

I'll have to dig up our notes as well during the swap.
Thanks for the link. I missed that entirely. Well, it looks like KWs result in a slight increase in weight given the OEM housing is aluminum. That will be hard to beat by a significant margin.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2009, 04:39 PM   #178
ddnad123
Registered
 
Drives: e92 m3
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: charlotte, nc

Posts: 2
iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the info on the airbags in the seats.
Looks like the KW coilovers are heavier than OEM too based on that link.
ddnad123 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-18-2009, 10:34 PM   #179
rzm3
Moderator
 
rzm3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 4,601
iTrader: (14)

from another thread to keep things on topic

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I wish they stopped focusing on trunk lids and came up with low cost CF external door panels as those things weigh a lot; the Ericsonn stuff is way to expensive. Did you ever go for the Braille battery by the way? I read that people have been using them with their Z06s without problems. I am thinking about going for it...
Door panels may have safety requirements... though I am not really sure. Also the condition of doors when you sell your car is extremly important. Many appraisers look very closely at whether the bolts have been removed, so I wouldn't mess with it.

The battery... i did want to get it, but I am just concerned about the fuse box. Look at doba's picture and you can see that the fuse box barely fits... I really don't want to short something...

Just a short while ago, i was determined to loose the weight on my car, but now i think it's just not worth the money... you've got to spend at least $10-$20k to loose perhaps 200/250 lb with lighter wheels, body panels, exhaust, brakes, etc... and again, when you sell your car, aftermarket parts are worthless to dealers, so you'd have to spend all the money/time taking them off and part-out...

hence, i thought i'd save some $$ for a used 07 GT3 that has a power-weight ratio of ~300hp/ton from the factory (vs. ~250hp/ton for M3) cheers.
__________________
E92 M3 DCT - AiM EVO4 Data Logger / AiM SmartyCam HD / KW Competition 2-Way / OMP ARS Racing Seats / Brembo GT 365 / Pagid Yellow RS-29 / Rear Seats Delete
rzm3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2009, 08:19 AM   #180
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rldzhao View Post
Door panels may have safety requirements... though I am not really sure. Also the condition of doors when you sell your car is extremly important. Many appraisers look very closely at whether the bolts have been removed, so I wouldn't mess with it.
I wouldn't worry about the safety issue too much as I doubt the external panels are significant structural components. There must be one or more cross bars in the door itself. I didn't know about appraisers examining doors so closely though. Good to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rldzhao View Post
The battery... i did want to get it, but I am just concerned about the fuse box. Look at doba's picture and you can see that the fuse box barely fits... I really don't want to short something...
Not sure what you mean by barely fits. Do you mean that it is loose, or that it doesn't seem to attach properly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rldzhao View Post
Just a short while ago, i was determined to loose the weight on my car, but now i think it's just not worth the money... you've got to spend at least $10-$20k to loose perhaps 200/250 lb with lighter wheels, body panels, exhaust, brakes, etc... and again, when you sell your car, aftermarket parts are worthless to dealers, so you'd have to spend all the money/time taking them off and part-out...
Fair point. But 100lb is reasonable. I am considering installing pole positions just for the summers and if I continue to take out the rear seats at the track as well, that is 250lb for about $6k including the titanium exhaust, TE37s, and braille battery. That is not acceptable to many people, but I was fine with driving without rear seats for a couple of months last year and I put them back in when I needed them (takes 15 minutes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by rldzhao View Post
hence, i thought i'd save some $$ for a used 07 GT3 that has a power-weight ratio of ~300hp/ton from the factory (vs. ~250hp/ton for M3) cheers.
I've come to the exact same conclusion as to what my next car will be. My plan is to sell the M in 3 years and get a 07 GT3.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2009, 08:35 AM   #181
likestogofast
Old Fart
 
Drives: e92 M3 6MT... My Beater
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD

Posts: 123
iTrader: (0)

The weight to cost here is more than most drugs... I dropped 35lbs out of my car with no cost at all... I lost 35lbs off of my fat ass
likestogofast is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-19-2009, 09:04 PM   #182
rzm3
Moderator
 
rzm3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 4,601
iTrader: (14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Not sure what you mean by barely fits. Do you mean that it is loose, or that it doesn't seem to attach properly?

Fair point. But 100lb is reasonable. I am considering installing pole positions just for the summers and if I continue to take out the rear seats at the track as well, that is 250lb for about $6k including the titanium exhaust, TE37s, and braille battery. That is not acceptable to many people, but I was fine with driving without rear seats for a couple of months last year and I put them back in when I needed them (takes 15 minutes).
1. the fuse box is not properly attached to the battery edges as the OE does. It has to be slightly twisted to fit. Also it appears that the - terminal isn't clamped down all the way.



2. Make sure you get some kind of modification for the seat sensors.
__________________
E92 M3 DCT - AiM EVO4 Data Logger / AiM SmartyCam HD / KW Competition 2-Way / OMP ARS Racing Seats / Brembo GT 365 / Pagid Yellow RS-29 / Rear Seats Delete
rzm3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-20-2009, 03:04 PM   #183
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rldzhao View Post
1. the fuse box is not properly attached to the battery edges as the OE does. It has to be slightly twisted to fit. Also it appears that the - terminal isn't clamped down all the way.

2. Make sure you get some kind of modification for the seat sensors.
Yes, it does seems slightly twisted, but I can't see enough to say that it does or does not clamp on properly. Doba_s can comment maybe?

There will be a small mod available to address the sensor issue, but I read somewhere that the sensor might not be a binary switch, and might be feeding back load info, which might be factored into the deployment rate of the airbag. Honestly, that seems over the top as I don't think that it is possible to control the deployment rate of the airbag to begin with (the nozzle diameter would have to be adjustable or something like that and I just can't see that being the case). Anyway, I'd like to find out for sure though before buying anything.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-20-2009, 11:49 PM   #184
rzm3
Moderator
 
rzm3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 4,601
iTrader: (14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Yes, it does seems slightly twisted, but I can't see enough to say that it does or does not clamp on properly. Doba_s can comment maybe?

There will be a small mod available to address the sensor issue, but I read somewhere that the sensor might not be a binary switch, and might be feeding back load info, which might be factored into the deployment rate of the airbag. Honestly, that seems over the top as I don't think that it is possible to control the deployment rate of the airbag to begin with (the nozzle diameter would have to be adjustable or something like that and I just can't see that being the case). Anyway, I'd like to find out for sure though before buying anything.
The black pieces on the fuse box are the clamps that holds on to the edge of the OE battery. The Braille battery is narrower than OE, so the clamps won't work.

Also I think Doba already got rid of the Braille battery? See his recent DIY thread: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242963

IMO the easiest/safest way to reduce the weight of the battery is to get a lesser capacity OE battery that have the same width/height (but may be slightly shorter). A 70 amp hr OE battery is about 15lb lighter than most people's stock 90 amp hr battery.
Attached Images
 
__________________
E92 M3 DCT - AiM EVO4 Data Logger / AiM SmartyCam HD / KW Competition 2-Way / OMP ARS Racing Seats / Brembo GT 365 / Pagid Yellow RS-29 / Rear Seats Delete
rzm3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-21-2009, 08:01 AM   #185
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rldzhao View Post
Also I think Doba already got rid of the Braille battery? See his recent DIY thread: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242963
Yes, I know he was thinking about selling it. I had a few PM exchanges with him, but I don't think it had anything to do with the battery being problematic. I can't recall the exact reason though. I'll PM and ask him. I'll also look at the fuse box more carefuly today.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-21-2009, 10:16 AM   #186
doba_s
Major General
 
doba_s's Avatar
 
Drives: M3, 1M
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 6,101
iTrader: (26)

Send a message via Skype™ to doba_s
i still have my battery ... i didn't sell it to anybody ... the reason i was thinking to sell is to go with the 15lb one ... i had it for 3 days with 0 problems ... my car is making some weird noise and i am constantly taking it to the dealer ... to avoid any issues with my SA i put my stock one back temporary ...

The fuse box is a bit bigger and only one side can be properly attached. Since it is connected to the main positive terminal it seats pretty firm on the battery and the upper rubber mount doesn't let it to move at all ... Terminals fit OK , no issues there
doba_s is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-21-2009, 12:51 PM   #187
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by doba_s View Post
i still have my battery ... i didn't sell it to anybody ... the reason i was thinking to sell is to go with the 15lb one ... i had it for 3 days with 0 problems ... my car is making some weird noise and i am constantly taking it to the dealer ... to avoid any issues with my SA i put my stock one back temporary ...

The fuse box is a bit bigger and only one side can be properly attached. Since it is connected to the main positive terminal it seats pretty firm on the battery and the upper rubber mount doesn't let it to move at all ... Terminals fit OK , no issues there
Thanks for the clarification.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2009, 06:26 PM   #188
badfish
Major
 
badfish's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 AW M3
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SoCal

Posts: 1,035
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Stoptech F caliper assemb: 13.11 lbs with pads & bracket (Badfish weighed this)
Stoptech F disc assemb: 20.01 lbs (Badfish weighed this)
Stoptech R caliper assemb: 19.33 lbs (Badfish weighed this)
Stoptech R disc assemb: 11.15 lbs with pads & bracket (Badfish weighed this)
Cost: $6050
Weight savings: 4.6 lbs
cost/benefit: $1315/lbs
Lucid, as always thanks for this thread.

It was pointed out to me that one of the numbers is off on the original post. The overall weight savings of 4.6 pounds is correct still, however the 20.01 number for the front rotor should be 22.01. You can reference this thread.

Thanks!
__________________
badfish is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2009, 08:35 PM   #189
J08M3
Major General
 
J08M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

Posts: 6,012
iTrader: (8)

I think you should Sticky this thread for quick reference. Good info in here.
__________________
J08M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-17-2009, 04:35 AM   #190
Sam12345
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Sam12345's Avatar
 
Drives: jet black 335i coupe
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: So Cal

Posts: 1,534
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 335i Coupe  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to Sam12345
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1234 View Post
So, your trying to measure every lb in a luxury sport racer? Pull the AC, pull the rear seat, pull the dash (replace with an aluminum shell to hold the tach and spedo). But, is that really the car you paid $70K for? If you do that, why have a muffler? Pull the cats too, carpet. Strip the trunk and headliner...

If you're willing to pull the nice comfy seats and replace them with lightweight ones where are you drawing the line between removing comfort and reducing weight? The things you are doing might add up to 100 lbs. Will that really make a handling difference and wouldn't it be cheaper from an acceleration and cost/benefit perspective to add horsepower?

lol 100lbs, are you joking?

Stripping back seats- 50 pounds
Removing FULL exhaust after headers- EASILY 75 pounds.
Swap front seats for recaros- easy 100 pounds
Dash, A/C, Navigation/stereo- Like 150 pounds

Just by removing shit from the car that is almost 400 pounds. That makes a SIGNIFICANT difference in braking, handling, toss-ability, and acceleration.

I did not even mention putting lighter wheels and brakes(less rotational mass and unsprung weight, so though you decrese the weight by a little, it ends up accounting for alot...if you know what i mean)
__________________
Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(e90post.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
Sam12345 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-25-2009, 08:40 PM   #191
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badfish View Post
Lucid, as always thanks for this thread.

It was pointed out to me that one of the numbers is off on the original post. The overall weight savings of 4.6 pounds is correct still, however the 20.01 number for the front rotor should be 22.01. You can reference this thread.

Thanks!
Done. Thanks for the reminder.

I also added the Peformance Friction kit and the Brembo 365/345 kit numbers. Thanks to JamesC and Sparkyg.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-25-2009, 08:42 PM   #192
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OC kid View Post
I could not get a value for the dust shields, they were too light...similar to an empty soda can...we're talking ounces. Caliper weights do include pads, as you mentioned.



lucid: Thanks for waiting...I've been real busy with work.

My trunk weights did not include the lights/carpeting, trunk release or hardware. They were already transfered to the VRS lid. My measurements are as approximate as the tolerances in the $50 digital bathroom scale. (...sorry swamp.)

VRS double-sided cf bootlid w/o hardware, carpeting, etc.---- 14.9 lbs.
OEM trunklid w/o hardware, carpeting, etc.------------------ 26.0 lbs.

Brembo 380 x 34 front rotor -------------------------------- 24.8 lbs.
OEM front rotor-------------------------------------------- 26.6 lbs.

Brembo 380 x 28 rear rotor --------------------------------- 17.0 lbs.
OEM rear rotor -------------------------------------------- 22.8 lbs.

Brembo 6 pot front caliper -------------------------------- 13.0 lbs.
OEM front caliper ------------------------------------------ 15.2 lbs.

Brembo 4 pot rear caliper ---------------------------------- 9.6 lbs.
OEM rear caliper ------------------------------------------ 12.1 lbs.
OC, not sure if you are still hanging out around the forum. I am not including the numbers you provided because your scale seems to be off. Your stock system numbers are significantly different than Badfish's numbers (front system difference of 4.6 lbs), whereas JamesC's numbers are consistent with Badfish's. Therefore, I must assume something was off with your scale?
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-25-2009, 08:45 PM   #193
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
I think you should Sticky this thread for quick reference. Good info in here.
I can make it a sticky, but I am not sure about where it should be stickied exactly. I'll think about it...
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-26-2009, 06:05 PM   #194
OC ///M
Dr. Octagon
 
OC ///M's Avatar
 
Drives: Moonstone e92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: So Cal

Posts: 1,815
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
OC, not sure if you are still hanging out around the forum. I am not including the numbers you provided because your scale seems to be off. Your stock system numbers are significantly different than Badfish's numbers (front system difference of 4.6 lbs), whereas JamesC's numbers are consistent with Badfish's. Therefore, I must assume something was off with your scale?
Thanks for the update lucid!

Good to correct and clarify the thread. I think I may have mentioned last year that the bathroom scale used was potentially suspect. (even posted pics of the crappy thing)

Quote:
My measurements are as approximate as the tolerances in the $50 digital bathroom scale. (...sorry swamp.)
And yes, due to workload and gf, I don't hang out here as much as I'd like, but it is nice to check back in and see that you still have a handle on things.

Happy to see the progress on the lighweight RAC's too-I'm looking forward to seeing the cost/benefit numbers once production begins...

Take care and keep up the good work.
__________________
OC ///M

2013 E92 M3 Individual
Sold: 2011 E92 M3 SSII | Sold: 2008 E92 M3 SSII | Into a Wall: 2008 E92 M3 SSII | Sold: 2007 E92 335i JB
OC ///M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-26-2009, 06:51 PM   #195
badfish
Major
 
badfish's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 AW M3
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SoCal

Posts: 1,035
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Done. Thanks for the reminder.
Hey Lucid, one other error I noticed. The caliper weight needs to be swapped with the rotor weight for the rear for the Stoptech brakes.
Quote:
Stoptech R caliper assemb: 19.33 lbs (Badfish weighed this)
Stoptech R disc assemb: 11.15 lbs with pads & bracket (Badfish weighed this)
Should read:

Stoptech R caliper assemb: 11.15 lbs (Badfish weighed this)
Stoptech R disc assemb: 19.33 lbs with pads & bracket (Badfish weighed this)

Sorry for not catching it the first time around but just want to make sure all the data is correct...
__________________
badfish is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-26-2009, 06:52 PM   #196
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Good to hear from you OC!

This is a long shot, but if you just happen to have that 380mm brembo kit sitting around collecting dust--the way expensive BBKs do--can you weigh the parts again?

Right!
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-26-2009, 06:58 PM   #197
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badfish View Post
Hey Lucid, one other error I noticed. The caliper weight needs to be swapped with the rotor weight for the rear for the Stoptech brakes.
Fixed. You can see why I am not an accountant; I would rapidly put any company out of business with my accounting skills...
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-26-2009, 08:31 PM   #198
J08M3
Major General
 
J08M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

Posts: 6,012
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I can make it a sticky, but I am not sure about where it should be stickied exactly. I'll think about it...
Ha, good point. Why not just sticky it here in the General forum?
__________________
J08M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:16 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST