Rear Differential Noise When turning at Low Speed - Page 3

SenorFunkyPants · 05-18-2009, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

Alright, I have an answer to our questions. The "special" oil (83 22 2 282 583) is described on the bottle as "SAF-XJ + FM Booster". So, it is the same oil with the addition of some type of extra friction modifier or "booster".

I put in a quick call to Castrol technical support and their answer was that they produce SAF-XJ with friction modifiers to BMW...if BMW then mix in further additives and repackage it with their own part number then its nothing to do with Castrol.

Wyatt · 05-18-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc52ar

After my 1,200 miles break in service, I am experiencing a very noticible clunk/rubbing noise whenever I am turning at low speed. The service advisor thinks it is caused by the new differential fluid. Has anyone experienced this and have any suggestion?

Had the same problem. Dealership told me it was bad diff fluid and they changed it. Still had the problem a few times afterwards but I think the clutch plates just need to be broken in better.

Drive the crap out of it and it will stop doing it.

BMWM.D. · 05-20-2009, 10:05 PM

I just had to install this stuff in another M3 today for the noise problem. I gave the bottles a thorough inspection, and there is no mention of Castrol anywhere. It does say "produced in Germany for BMW AG". It appears Castrol has no involvement in producing this product (other than making the base oil). So the final word on this discussion is this:

The "special rear axle fluid" starts out life as the regular Castrol SAF-XJ synthetic oil. The SAF-XJ oil is what comes in the car from the factory and is what is used during the 1200 mile run-in service. BMW then modifies the SAF-XJ by adding some type of additional friction modifiers or "FM booster". This oil is sold under BMW part# 83 22 2 282 583 and is only used when a rear differential noise concern is encountered.

You could probably obtain the same results by adding a tube of friction modifier to the existing oil, but for some reason BMW chose to go this route. Hope this clears it up for everyone.

GregW / Oregon · 05-20-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

I just had to install this stuff in another M3 today for the noise problem. I gave the bottles a thorough inspection, and there is no mention of Castrol anywhere. It does say "produced in Germany for BMW AG". It appears Castrol has no involvement in producing this product (other than making the base oil). So the final word on this discussion is this:

The "special rear axle fluid" starts out life as the regular Castrol SAF-XJ synthetic oil. The SAF-XJ oil is what comes in the car from the factory and is what is used during the 1200 mile run-in service. BMW then modifies the SAF-XJ by adding some type of additional friction modifiers or "FM booster". This oil is sold under BMW part# 83 22 2 282 583 and is only used when a rear differential noise concern is encountered.

You could probably obtain the same results by adding a tube of friction modifier to the existing oil, but for some reason BMW chose to go this route. Hope this clears it up for everyone.

Thanks for the info. Any idea why mine did not make a peep until the 1,200 mile service if it received the same fluid as from the factory? This stuff did cure it, though. Second question is if this "friction modifier" reduces the limited slip performance? Seems like it would.

foosh · 05-20-2009, 11:09 PM

Yes, it seems to me that logic dictates that it would have to compromise the LSD performance to some extent, however small, and you're better off living with "the noise," since it only occurs on low-speed, tight turns. Given other manufacturer's experiences in LSD cars with big tires, it seems clear that some just can't tolerate hearing what they perceive to be an objectionable noise.

The friction modifier additive was exactly what GM told dealers to do when customers complained about C6 Corvettes, but they were also quick to point out in the service bulletin, that no action was necessary, except upon customer request.

Greg, my Z06 did the same thing, and the noise didn't show up until about 2K miles. I never bothered to have anything done about it.

SenorFunkyPants · 05-21-2009, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Second question is if this "friction modifier" reduces the limited slip performance? Seems like it would.

I think you are absolutely right...the noise is generated as a function of the energy required to overcome the friction between the clutch plates, in reducing the friction level by making the plates slip easier you are degrading the limited slip function.
I now suspect BMW created their own diff oil based on Castrol's SAJ-XJ (which already contains friction modifiers) with extra additives not because the diff requires it but solely to placate grumpy owners who complain about the noise.

VanM3Lover · 05-21-2009, 03:12 AM

So here is what they put in my car in the service, the numbers do not match any of the above. Can anyone help me to find out what they are and are they the right fluids for my car? Thanks in advance!

Qty:26 Part #:83-22-0-406-582 Description: Oil
Qty:12 Part #:83-22-9-415-961 Description: Posi Diff Oil
Qty:9 Part #:07-51-0-009-420 Description: 10W60 Oil

VanM3Lover · 05-21-2009, 03:34 AM

I just googled Part #:83-22-0-406-582, supposed to be MT oil, with no hit at all!

rochoventura · 06-28-2012, 10:23 AM

Hello Andy:

I know this post might be little bit old, but I’m still facing differential noise w/ my 2012 E92 M3 Coupe Mech LL S65 EUR after break in period oil change, and i have changed twice already and noise is still much noticeable when slow turning right...

Resuming history:

1. after break in period i started noticing the noise, so take car to service and they change my oil w/ 1.5L 422520 CHG, and told me the noise will go away after 1.000 kms

2. The noise didn't go away so i took the car again to the service, they once again change my oil w/ 1.5L 422520 CHG, and was told once again the noise will go away after 1.000kms as per factory instructions.

3. A friend of mine at the concessionary friendly told me that if the noise doesn’t go away this time they might change my rear differential part.; and I really don’t want a repaired car because it’s suppose to be brand new.

* I have try to find out about the oil you suggested (83 22 2 282 583) but I’m still waiting for the concessionary comments regards this, and i don't find any match between what the concessionary used and your suggestion, kindly if you have time give me an idea, many thanks in advance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

The two are different oils. The SAF-XJ is the standard oil we install during all 1200 mile services. We carry it in a 55 gallon drum. I verified all part numbers before performing my own 1200 mile service. I just wanted to be certain we were using the correct oil. This is the standard oil listed by BMW in the "operating fluids" section of BMW's technical information. This oil is also available as a 1 litre bottle, part# 83 22 1 467 993.

The "specially formulated differential oil" (83 22 2 282 583) is the fluid listed in the Service Bulletin to use when the regular SAF-XJ oil results in excessive clutch noise. I know this because I have performed this bulletin on several cars. This oil contains additional friction modifiers to reduce noise.

Although I know they are different oils, I can provide you with one particular incident that stands out in my mind. I have an E90 M3 customer that asks for me to personally work on his car whenever he needs service. I performed the run-in service on his car right around 1000 miles, using the SAF-XJ oil in the 55 gallon drum. A few weeks later, he comes in to talk to me about a loud rubbing noise he is hearing while turning into his driveway. I tell him it is most likely the clutch pack in the rear diff. After a test drive, it is certainly the differential, and it was LOUD. I drained the SAF-XJ oil and filled the diff with the special #583 oil. A quick road test later and the noise was completely gone. This is enough to prove to me that these are different oils.

I could be completely wrong, but having first hand experience with this stuff for years, I really don't think so. I am not trying to be argumentative; I just want people to be getting the most accurate info.

Andy

1sikbmr · 06-28-2012, 11:03 AM

Did you tell the dealer the service bulletin number? I believe they are putting the same oil in there constantly instead of the different oil which will stop the noise. Where are you located?

DARK_M3 · 06-28-2012, 11:08 AM

Had my rear diff fluid changed out to the "special" diff fluid (whatever the hell that is) at dealer awhile back. No more clunk.

Lerxst M3 · 06-28-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARK_M3

Had my rear diff fluid changed out to the "special" diff fluid (whatever the hell that is) at dealer awhile back. No more clunk.

Same here last week. No more grinding on slow cornering.

mlhj83 · 06-28-2012, 11:32 AM

When I had a new diff fitted under warranty, it made the usual groaning noises. I wasn't too fussed as I expected it, but given that it was pretty loud at low speeds on tight manoeuvring, the master tech decided it was best to change to the SAF-XJ +FM booster (83 22 2 282 583). FM being a fluorite based friction modifier. The noise disappeared.

I was initially hesitant about having the FM in my diff fluid as I believed that the FM would delay diff clutch engagement, but the tech assured me that there won't be a performance difference, which was proved by a track day soon after. I still managed to get power down very early on the outside rear wheel when powering out of a corner.

ChrisK · 06-28-2012, 11:50 AM

I had the same thing done a few weeks ago, but i'm not sure it was special fluid or an additive put in the diff.

rochoventura · 06-28-2012, 01:03 PM

i'm located in Chile, thank you very much for you answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1sikbmr

Did you tell the dealer the service bulletin number? I believe they are putting the same oil in there constantly instead of the different oil which will stop the noise. Where are you located?

rochoventura · 07-09-2012, 04:47 PM

Unfortunately for me the differential oil change as not solved the differential turn noise, is still present after changing it for the third time… this noise was not present before the break-in oil change…
As per concessionary suggestion, I have already changed differential oil twice, they called 422520 CHG and they stated that is part number 83 22 2 282 583.. And they told me if the noise didn’t go away in the next 500 kms they will have to change my differential part….
For me that’s unacceptable choice… changing a part for a brand new car??? So my new car will be made in Chile instead of in Germany????? I had to drive the 2000 kms to end the break in period, then I had to add it 1000 kms to make the noise go away, then another 1000 kms to try make the noise go away and to know I have a good car… that’s just crazy….
Any suggestions? My concessionary seems to be a joke and it’s the biggest one in Chile ….

ajvee · 07-09-2012, 07:04 PM

I would still make sure that the fluid they are putting in says fm somewhere which stands for friction modifier. You can buy it from eas. I had this issue and just bought and replaced the fluid myself.

tibra1 · 07-09-2012, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

I just had to install this stuff in another M3 today for the noise problem. I gave the bottles a thorough inspection, and there is no mention of Castrol anywhere. It does say "produced in Germany for BMW AG". It appears Castrol has no involvement in producing this product (other than making the base oil). So the final word on this discussion is this:

The "special rear axle fluid" starts out life as the regular Castrol SAF-XJ synthetic oil. The SAF-XJ oil is what comes in the car from the factory and is what is used during the 1200 mile run-in service. BMW then modifies the SAF-XJ by adding some type of additional friction modifiers or "FM booster". This oil is sold under BMW part# 83 22 2 282 583 and is only used when a rear differential noise concern is encountered.

You could probably obtain the same results by adding a tube of friction modifier to the existing oil, but for some reason BMW chose to go this route. Hope this clears it up for everyone.

Great post

Transfer · 11-08-2012, 12:39 PM

Bump for a question. I have the nice grind/rub noise in parking lots and while it doesn't bother me, is there any damage effect to not using the special FM oil? I would have it changed if there is potential for damage without it, but otherwise it's fine. Thoughts?

JnglstTICAL · 11-11-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transfer

Bump for a question. I have the nice grind/rub noise in parking lots and while it doesn't bother me, is there any damage effect to not using the special FM oil? I would have it changed if there is potential for damage without it, but otherwise it's fine. Thoughts?

Curious as well...

driftflo · 11-11-2012, 11:49 AM

fm is aggressive to the seals and reduces the friction of the clutches so you will have less locking performance any time.
dont use it!

it is just to keep customers happy who do not have a deeper technical knowledge and dont accept "noise" in general ;-)

Transfer · 11-11-2012, 11:59 AM

So all the noise would be considered normal operation without risk for premature wear? I'm cool with that.

05-20-2009, 10:05 PM	#47
BMWM.D. Master Tech Drives: E90 335i & LS3 C6 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Santa Barbara Posts: 400 iTrader: (0)	I just had to install this stuff in another M3 today for the noise problem. I gave the bottles a thorough inspection, and there is no mention of Castrol anywhere. It does say "produced in Germany for BMW AG". It appears Castrol has no involvement in producing this product (other than making the base oil). So the final word on this discussion is this: The "special rear axle fluid" starts out life as the regular Castrol SAF-XJ synthetic oil. The SAF-XJ oil is what comes in the car from the factory and is what is used during the 1200 mile run-in service. BMW then modifies the SAF-XJ by adding some type of additional friction modifiers or "FM booster". This oil is sold under BMW part# 83 22 2 282 583 and is only used when a rear differential noise concern is encountered. You could probably obtain the same results by adding a tube of friction modifier to the existing oil, but for some reason BMW chose to go this route. Hope this clears it up for everyone. __________________

05-20-2009, 11:09 PM	#49
foosh Major Drives: 2008 M3 E93 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Annapolis, MD Posts: 1,316 iTrader: (0)	Yes, it seems to me that logic dictates that it would have to compromise the LSD performance to some extent, however small, and you're better off living with "the noise," since it only occurs on low-speed, tight turns. Given other manufacturer's experiences in LSD cars with big tires, it seems clear that some just can't tolerate hearing what they perceive to be an objectionable noise. The friction modifier additive was exactly what GM told dealers to do when customers complained about C6 Corvettes, but they were also quick to point out in the service bulletin, that no action was necessary, except upon customer request. Greg, my Z06 did the same thing, and the noise didn't show up until about 2K miles. I never bothered to have anything done about it. __________________

06-28-2012, 11:03 AM	#54
1sikbmr Brigadier General Drives: E90 M3 6MT Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: New York Posts: 3,111 iTrader: (12)	Did you tell the dealer the service bulletin number? I believe they are putting the same oil in there constantly instead of the different oil which will stop the noise. Where are you located? __________________ E90 ///M3 6MT Atlantis Blue - Fox red Gloss black grilles/Red gills\|V1 hardwire\|Painted reflectors\|ZHP lighted shift knob\|VMR V710 silver\|GTS lip\|Lux custom 8k kit\|AA Green Filter\| AA Pulley\| RPI GTM Exhaust\|Sosi x-pipe\|BMW Performance Steering Wheel V1\|

06-28-2012, 11:32 AM	#57
mlhj83 Scythe-Meister Drives: '11 E92 M3 DCT ZCP Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: London Posts: 895 iTrader: (0)	When I had a new diff fitted under warranty, it made the usual groaning noises. I wasn't too fussed as I expected it, but given that it was pretty loud at low speeds on tight manoeuvring, the master tech decided it was best to change to the SAF-XJ +FM booster (83 22 2 282 583). FM being a fluorite based friction modifier. The noise disappeared. I was initially hesitant about having the FM in my diff fluid as I believed that the FM would delay diff clutch engagement, but the tech assured me that there won't be a performance difference, which was proved by a track day soon after. I still managed to get power down very early on the outside rear wheel when powering out of a corner. Last edited by mlhj83; 06-28-2012 at 11:38 AM.

07-09-2012, 04:47 PM	#60
rochoventura New Member Drives: '12 BMW M3 E92 '13 X6 50i Join Date: May 2012 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 15 iTrader: (0)	Noise persist after differential oil being changed twice (83 22 2 282 583) Unfortunately for me the differential oil change as not solved the differential turn noise, is still present after changing it for the third time… this noise was not present before the break-in oil change… As per concessionary suggestion, I have already changed differential oil twice, they called 422520 CHG and they stated that is part number 83 22 2 282 583.. And they told me if the noise didn’t go away in the next 500 kms they will have to change my differential part…. For me that’s unacceptable choice… changing a part for a brand new car??? So my new car will be made in Chile instead of in Germany????? I had to drive the 2000 kms to end the break in period, then I had to add it 1000 kms to make the noise go away, then another 1000 kms to try make the noise go away and to know I have a good car… that’s just crazy…. Any suggestions? My concessionary seems to be a joke and it’s the biggest one in Chile ….

05-21-2009, 03:12 AM	#51
VanM3Lover First Lieutenant Drives: 4.0 V8 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Van Posts: 393 iTrader: (0)	So here is what they put in my car in the service, the numbers do not match any of the above. Can anyone help me to find out what they are and are they the right fluids for my car? Thanks in advance! Qty:26 Part #:83-22-0-406-582 Description: Oil Qty:12 Part #:83-22-9-415-961 Description: Posi Diff Oil Qty:9 Part #:07-51-0-009-420 Description: 10W60 Oil

05-21-2009, 03:34 AM	#52
VanM3Lover First Lieutenant Drives: 4.0 V8 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Van Posts: 393 iTrader: (0)	I just googled Part #:83-22-0-406-582, supposed to be MT oil, with no hit at all!

06-28-2012, 11:08 AM	#55
DARK_M3 Banned Drives: 08 E90, 89 Grand Wagoneer Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: So Cal Posts: 1,294 iTrader: (3)	Had my rear diff fluid changed out to the "special" diff fluid (whatever the hell that is) at dealer awhile back. No more clunk.

06-28-2012, 11:50 AM	#58
ChrisK Brigadier General Drives: 2011 E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: IL Posts: 4,679 iTrader: (4)	I had the same thing done a few weeks ago, but i'm not sure it was special fluid or an additive put in the diff. __________________ 2011 E92 M3: AW/BLK • DCT Europäische Lieferung am 6. August 2010

07-09-2012, 07:04 PM	#61
ajvee Major Drives: None Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: None Posts: 1,377 iTrader: (12)	I would still make sure that the fluid they are putting in says fm somewhere which stands for friction modifier. You can buy it from eas. I had this issue and just bought and replaced the fluid myself.

11-08-2012, 12:39 PM	#63
Transfer Captain Drives: E90 M3, X1 xDrive28i Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 865 iTrader: (0)	Bump for a question. I have the nice grind/rub noise in parking lots and while it doesn't bother me, is there any damage effect to not using the special FM oil? I would have it changed if there is potential for damage without it, but otherwise it's fine. Thoughts?

11-11-2012, 11:49 AM	#65
driftflo Enlisted Member Drives: 2012 M3 E92 6MT Join Date: May 2012 Location: europe Posts: 43 iTrader: (0)	fm is aggressive to the seals and reduces the friction of the clutches so you will have less locking performance any time. dont use it! it is just to keep customers happy who do not have a deeper technical knowledge and dont accept "noise" in general ;-)

11-11-2012, 11:59 AM	#66
Transfer Captain Drives: E90 M3, X1 xDrive28i Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 865 iTrader: (0)	So all the noise would be considered normal operation without risk for premature wear? I'm cool with that.

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