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      05-09-2009, 02:43 PM   #45
lucid
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Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I could not find the pics that show the steam but this one was from the same day.I had probally run out of water by this point!
Nice pics! Too bad you don't have any steaming ones though.
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      05-09-2009, 06:33 PM   #46
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lucid - another thread memtioned problems with power steering fluid overheating with the Performance Center M3s. Have you noticed any of this?

BTW, I tracked my E92 at CMP this week, only 6 laps just to get the feel of the car. Only ran about 80 percent. No issues, and the car handled very good, stock everything.

Thanks, vz
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      05-09-2009, 06:37 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
lucid - another thread memtioned problems with power steering fluid overheating with the Performance Center M3s. Have you noticed any of this?
Strangely enough, not an issue at the Glen, but this was a consistent issue at NHIS last year, which is a much slower, but tighter and technical track. I don't have a good handle on what contributes to the overheating of the PS fluid. I don't know where the energy input into the system is exactly. Does it have to do with the steering input and how hard the pump works? And maybe on a faster track, there is more airflow into the engine bay and hence more cooling for that system?
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      05-15-2009, 10:13 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Does it have to do with the steering input and how hard the pump works? And maybe on a faster track, there is more airflow into the engine bay and hence more cooling for that system?
Yep...my Z06 used to boil fluid, too. I thought we have a PScooler..no?
Tight tracks just don't allow a PS system to shed it's heat fast enough..larger coolers are usually the ticket, if synth-fluid is already used.

First...
Great job at the Glen!!! My favorite track of all and surely an M3 track.
The brakes...
Using r-comps with the stock brake system, even with pads/fluid/lines, is not going to cut it. Come to think of it...no car I've ever driven on r-comps allowed one to run without ducting. You NEED ducting...anything...even scoops that throw air at the rotors from under the car, like the 996turbo.
I plan on running two 2" hoses to each wheel-well...I"ll try to mount them close to the center of the backing-plates but there's not much room in there.
Figure I'll mount them 'just for the day' and then take them off.

The requirements of cooling brakes, especially at the Glen, are huge. Taking a car as heavy as the M3 and braking down from the speeds possible at WGI REQUIRES ducting...especially on r-comps. I'll not be running r-comps on this car, as I'd need to throw waaaay too much cash at it once that starts...just gonna buy a SpecE30 or build an E36M for next season.

One could also try...I'd have no idea where they'd fit...the brake cooling fans that are used when there is precious little ground clearance and they suck air from under the car...
http://www.tjtrailers.com/store/detm...-blower-3.html

I'll see how the 2x2"hose works first, though,...

Be good,
TomK
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      05-16-2009, 01:52 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Strangely enough, not an issue at the Glen, but this was a consistent issue at NHIS last year, which is a much slower, but tighter and technical track. I don't have a good handle on what contributes to the overheating of the PS fluid. I don't know where the energy input into the system is exactly. Does it have to do with the steering input and how hard the pump works? And maybe on a faster track, there is more airflow into the engine bay and hence more cooling for that system?
The E39 M5's had this problem until someone solved the problem by taking the level in the PS fluid reservoir down about 1/2 inch to make more room for expansion.

The PS fluid doesn't "boil" or "overheat". It just expands as it gets hot and when all the air is pushed out of the reservoir then some fluid leaks out. It's that simple.

One thing that does seem to make the fluid hotter is bypassing it under pressure, which is how the less boosted "sport mode" steering is achieved in MDM. I run mine as standard power steering boost - the wheel's lighter but the fluid's cooler.
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      05-16-2009, 09:35 AM   #50
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What about wheel cooling fans like they used to use on the Porsche 934-935's

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      05-16-2009, 09:38 AM   #51
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A little more here.

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.c...129029&page=14

http://books.google.ca/books?id=sjdD...esult&resnum=7
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      05-16-2009, 01:02 PM   #52
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You mean like this?

Name:  bmw-m3-bt92-brabham-11.jpg
Views: 226
Size:  232.4 KB

That's the Brabham wheel from the BT92. This is a front wheel and "front" is to the right. The curved CF blades will pull air out of the wheel well.
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      05-16-2009, 01:07 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
You mean like this?

That's the Brabham wheel from the BT92. This is a front wheel and "front" is to the right. The curved CF blades will pull air out of the wheel well.
I didn't realize those are functional. Are they?
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      05-16-2009, 01:37 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
You mean like this?

Attachment 268921

That's the Brabham wheel from the BT92. This is a front wheel and "front" is to the right. The curved CF blades will pull air out of the wheel well.
No like this.



I do not think the ones on The Brabham would flow as much air.
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      05-16-2009, 01:39 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I didn't realize those are functional. Are they?
Well, they're going to do something, that's for sure.

As far as the air over the road is concerned, the bottom of the wheel is at a standstill and the top is moving at twice the speed of the car. I'd think that a curved blade like that moving at 200mph or 300mph would definitely pull air out of the wheel well.

If you look at a picture of the front of a BT92, the air dam that the factory put in remains unchanged, even though the bumper wrapper is different. If Brabham didn't mess with the under-car airflow, they must have thought that BMW did a good job. It's clear that the Brabham engineers did spend a lot of time dealing with aerodynamics - looking at the rear, they changed the exhaust routing to the middle and put a flat panel ahead of the new rear diffuser to cover the hole left behind when the factory mufflers came out.

Name:  bmw-m3-bt92-brabham-03.jpg
Views: 423
Size:  253.6 KB
Name:  bmw-m3-bt92-brabham-08.jpg
Views: 338
Size:  298.9 KB

How's that CFD project coming along?
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      05-16-2009, 01:40 PM   #56
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Guy is making his own wheel fans

http://www.wheel-whores.com/forum/vi...3baac&start=15
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      05-16-2009, 02:30 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ace996 View Post
Yep...my Z06 used to boil fluid, too. I thought we have a PScooler..no?
Tight tracks just don't allow a PS system to shed it's heat fast enough..larger coolers are usually the ticket, if synth-fluid is already used.

First...
Great job at the Glen!!! My favorite track of all and surely an M3 track.
The brakes...
Using r-comps with the stock brake system, even with pads/fluid/lines, is not going to cut it. Come to think of it...no car I've ever driven on r-comps allowed one to run without ducting. You NEED ducting...anything...even scoops that throw air at the rotors from under the car, like the 996turbo.
I plan on running two 2" hoses to each wheel-well...I"ll try to mount them close to the center of the backing-plates but there's not much room in there.
Figure I'll mount them 'just for the day' and then take them off.

The requirements of cooling brakes, especially at the Glen, are huge. Taking a car as heavy as the M3 and braking down from the speeds possible at WGI REQUIRES ducting...especially on r-comps. I'll not be running r-comps on this car, as I'd need to throw waaaay too much cash at it once that starts...just gonna buy a SpecE30 or build an E36M for next season.

One could also try...I'd have no idea where they'd fit...the brake cooling fans that are used when there is precious little ground clearance and they suck air from under the car...
http://www.tjtrailers.com/store/detm...-blower-3.html

I'll see how the 2x2"hose works first, though,...

Be good,
TomK
Hey Tom. Let me know what you come up with for the cooling. Good to see you are now a NASA/PDA instructor. Would be great to drive with you some time...
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      05-16-2009, 02:42 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
How's that CFD project coming along?
It will go somewhere when I stop driving the car so much.

My friend is waiting for me to obtain some accurate 3-D representations...
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