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      05-06-2009, 08:40 AM   #1
Delta0311
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More reasons to hate the cops..

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/27/2767.asp

Be careful in IL guys, have one too many drinks and your Bimmer could become a local pigs new play toy.



Illinois State Police Seize and Keep Desirable Cars for Personal Use
Influential Illinois State Police official gets personal use of a muscle car confiscated from a motorist.

Illinois State Police troopers seized a high-performance muscle car and set it aside for the personal use of an influential police official. The Associated Press reported that a suspected drunk driver in a 2006 Dodge Charger was pulled over in January 2007. The troopers used a state seizure law to confiscate the vehicle.

Once the paperwork was complete, the 425-horsepower vehicle -- which had an as-new base price of $38,000 -- was handed over for the personal use of Ron Cooley, 56, the Executive Director of the Illinois State Police Merit Board. Taxpayers also pick up the fuel tab for gas-guzzling 6.1 liter V-8 as he drives to and from work each day and on various business trips.

A good relationship with the merit board is essential for any state trooper looking to move up into a position of responsibility.

"The mission of the Illinois State Police Merit Board is to remove political influence and provide a fair and equitable merit process for the selection of Illinois State trooper candidates and the promotion and discipline of Illinois State Police officers," the board website explains.

According to AP, the Charger is just one of two dozen desirable cars -- including an Audi and a Cadillac Escalade -- grabbed and kept by state troopers. State police officials decline to identify the beneficiaries of the confiscated car policy claiming it could endanger officers if the type of car they drove at taxpayer expense were made public.

Source: AP Exclusive: Bureaucrat driving seized hotrod (Associated Press, 4/30/2009)
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      05-06-2009, 08:49 AM   #2
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two wrongs don't make a right but I have no sympathy for the drunk driver. If he hadn't been drinking, his car would've never been in the police's possession.
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      05-06-2009, 08:53 AM   #3
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I don't hate cops - they have a tough job - but some give them a very bad name

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/05/...res/index.html
TENAHA, Texas (CNN) -- Roderick Daniels was traveling through East Texas in October 2007 when, he says, he was the victim of a highway robbery.
The Tennessee man says he was ordered to pull his car over and surrender his jewelry and $8,500 in cash that he had with him to buy a new car.

But Daniels couldn't go to the police to report the incident.

The men who stopped him were the police.

Daniels was stopped on U.S. Highway 59 outside Tenaha, near the Louisiana state line. Police said he was driving 37 mph in a 35 mph zone. They hauled him off to jail and threatened him with money-laundering charges -- but offered to release him if he signed papers forfeiting his property.



Sounds like there is enough of a paper trail here to require some folks to get their resume' updated.
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      05-06-2009, 09:14 AM   #4
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Moral of the story, if you are going to drink and drive, drive a crappy car or at least puke all over it before the impound it.
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      05-06-2009, 09:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335e92tx View Post
I don't hate cops - they have a tough job - but some give them a very bad name

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/05/...res/index.html
TENAHA, Texas (CNN) -- Roderick Daniels was traveling through East Texas in October 2007 when, he says, he was the victim of a highway robbery.
The Tennessee man says he was ordered to pull his car over and surrender his jewelry and $8,500 in cash that he had with him to buy a new car.

But Daniels couldn't go to the police to report the incident.

The men who stopped him were the police.

Daniels was stopped on U.S. Highway 59 outside Tenaha, near the Louisiana state line. Police said he was driving 37 mph in a 35 mph zone. They hauled him off to jail and threatened him with money-laundering charges -- but offered to release him if he signed papers forfeiting his property.



Sounds like there is enough of a paper trail here to require some folks to get their resume' updated.

Yep, having large sums of money on you while driving it probably cause for them to believe you are involved in illegal activity and they can seize it from you and then you have the burden of proof to show the money or assets were legally obtained.

Our Fine US Supreme court has upheld this kind of seizures
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      05-06-2009, 09:31 AM   #6
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I think they have to be convicted of another crime for that to be automatic.

Theres a few more examples than just this of them taking some liberties that are not implied by another crime. Read a little further.
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      05-06-2009, 10:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
Yep, having large sums of money on you while driving it probably cause for them to believe you are involved in illegal activity and they can seize it from you and then you have the burden of proof to show the money or assets were legally obtained.

Our Fine US Supreme court has upheld this kind of seizures
$8500 is a large sum of money?

Pulling over someone for going 37mph?
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      05-06-2009, 10:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
$8500 is a large sum of money?

Pulling over someone for going 37mph?
Not up to me to determine what is large... Just telling what the courts have said and upheld...

I am not saying it was right or wrong, but better beware... Most of the time there is more behind these cases which do not show up in the papers to later.

There was another similar story where a guy had $25K in his car he claim was given to him by family members to go and put a down payment on a business. However, he never came back to prove and claim the money was legal.
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      05-06-2009, 01:23 PM   #9
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The seized cars should be put up for auction like any other. Just because a cop happens to pull a drunk over doesn't mean he should get an extra car out of it.
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      05-06-2009, 01:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyleb350 View Post
The seized cars should be put up for auction like any other. Just because a cop happens to pull a drunk over doesn't mean he should get an extra car out of it.
They drive V8 Chargers, SS Impalas and Tahoes here so I don't see where another *Free* Charger is going to hurt. It's one less charger tax payers buy. So in the end, the agency saves more money by not purchasing that vehicle than they would make auctioning it off for a fraction of it's value. They will spend the money on fuel no matter what.

As someone who has been paid by "your" tax money since I was 17 and enlisted in the military through today, don't forget we (State and Federal Government employees) pay taxes too!
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      05-06-2009, 02:24 PM   #11
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I think the issue here is that seizures are usually done with more serious offender like drug dealer, who pay no taxes what so every, also this is usually done to recover enforcement costs.

Unless the person is habitual DUI offender their car is not impounded and seized. With that said, we obviously only have part of the story here, Not sure what the entire story is as it relates to this guy and his car.

Last edited by Maestro; 05-06-2009 at 03:21 PM.
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      05-06-2009, 03:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift330 View Post
They drive V8 Chargers, SS Impalas and Tahoes here so I don't see where another *Free* Charger is going to hurt. It's one less charger tax payers buy. So in the end, the agency saves more money by not purchasing that vehicle than they would make auctioning it off for a fraction of it's value. They will spend the money on fuel no matter what.

As someone who has been paid by "your" tax money since I was 17 and enlisted in the military through today, don't forget we (State and Federal Government employees) pay taxes too!
Wrong. There are laws pertained to these kinds of situations. Any seized property by law enforcement should be auctioned off if not claimed by the original owner by a certain amount of time given them. It doesn't matter if the property is auctioned off for pennies or whatnot, the law is the law. These troopers basically just took advantage of the situation for their own perosnal benefits, which is totally illegal. You, being a military personnel, should know a thing or two about laws and regs.
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      05-06-2009, 03:21 PM   #13
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Whatever happened to "Innocent until proven Guilty??".

Cars and other property is being seized and auctioned without the person going to trial and being found guilty. What happens if the charges are dropped or the person is not convicted ?

Do they get their property back. The answer is No.
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      05-06-2009, 03:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ochmonek View Post
Whatever happened to "Innocent until proven Guilty??".

Cars and other property is being seized and auctioned without the person going to trial and being found guilty. What happens if the charges are dropped or the person is not convicted ?

Do they get their property back. The answer is No.
+1

And what happens if the car is leased/financed? Since the finance company is technically the owner of the vehicle, and you are just paying to operate it?

I guess if the car gets impounded you could stop making payments and soon enough the finance company would call Operation Repo and have them go get the car from the cops! That would be a pretty good episode
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      05-06-2009, 05:22 PM   #15
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Well, I wanted to be clear that when I say seized property, I meant that the property is seized due to illegally operated, controlled, accessed, or otherwise unlawful by the operator in question. Otherwise if someone's property is wrongfully seized then the owner has all the rights afforded them to get it back.
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      05-06-2009, 05:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer335i View Post
Well, I wanted to be clear that when I say seized property, I meant that the property is seized due to illegally operated, controlled, accessed, or otherwise unlawful by the operator in question. Otherwise if someone's property is wrongfully seized then the owner has all the rights afforded them to get it back.

That's exactly the problem.

A person is stopped by the police. The police find drugs in the car.

Their car is seized and sold without being found guilty.

The person goes to trial and is found not guilty (good lawyer, wasn't their drugs, whatever reason).

The person's car is gone. They have no recourse in getting their car back.


Does anyone think this is fair?
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      05-06-2009, 07:11 PM   #17
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Yup, it's pretty standard stuff. It's especially true on boats too.
Like they say, ignorance of the law is no excuse so you better beware.
- specifically, different governements (federal, state, local) can have very different laws about seizing property so there is no one answer to the question, plus it's going to be up to a judge or prosecutor or some authority to decide in every case the relationship between the owner, vehicle and crime.
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      05-06-2009, 07:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
Yep, having large sums of money on you while driving it probably cause for them to believe you are involved in illegal activity and they can seize it from you and then you have the burden of proof to show the money or assets were legally obtained.

Our Fine US Supreme court has upheld this kind of seizures
Fortunately, the police can no longer search your vehicle incident to lawful arrest unless you are within reach of the vehicle and pose a danger to the officer, in accordance with SCOTUS's ruling on the matter of Arizona v. Gant.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30328976/
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      05-06-2009, 09:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer335i View Post
Wrong. There are laws pertained to these kinds of situations. Any seized property by law enforcement should be auctioned off if not claimed by the original owner by a certain amount of time given them. It doesn't matter if the property is auctioned off for pennies or whatnot, the law is the law. These troopers basically just took advantage of the situation for their own perosnal benefits, which is totally illegal. You, being a military personnel, should know a thing or two about laws and regs.
Plenty of police agencies have added siezed vehicles to thier fleets. I highly doubt we're getting the whole story. Most likely, the person in question was a repeat offender. They're not going to sieze and add the vehicle to their own fleet without going through the propper process. Look how many siezed cars are on the road. Hell, it wasn't long ago that there were pics of a siezed Porsche being used down in TN or KY or something all over the net.
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      05-07-2009, 12:52 AM   #20
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The PD I work for regularly has me take a look at computer equipment that has been in evidence AND THE CASE CLOSED to see if we want to use it. Otherwise it goes to auction.
One case people were making money and they seized teh printers, even some still in the shrink. Once the case was closed we deployed those printers.
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      05-08-2009, 02:38 PM   #21
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you drink and drive you should lose your whip. i would rather lose my whip to the cops than to lose my whip and crib to a civil action after injuring someone. p.s. if you hate cops soo much, don't dial 911 when some thug is beating you within an inch of your life.
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