BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (ALMS, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..)
 
GTB Performance
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-02-2009, 12:37 PM   #67
BMWeber
Major
 
Drives: 08 135i
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Amesbury, MA

Posts: 1,329
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
If he still stuck with Honda....
and i'm not kidding you....I don't think he's top 5...but he's close to be there....

1. Raikkonen
2. Vettel
3. Hamilton
4. Alonso
5. Massa
6. Button
7. Barrichello
8. Trulli
9. Glock
10. Webber

BMWeber is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-02-2009, 06:56 PM   #68
TK-421
Registered Sex Offender
 
Drives: E46 M3 | 1JZ S13
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tampa, FL

Posts: 4,765
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE JEDI View Post
Talking about Senna..Shumacher couldn't hold a candle to Senna..just trajic how he died
Claims like that along with the usual "Senna v Schumacher" argument are pointless. We will never know who is best but one thing is for sure - they are, without a doubt, the 2 best drivers F1 has ever seen.
__________________
Stop putting stuff like painted reflectors and premium package in your signature. You're embarrassing.
TK-421 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-04-2009, 05:09 PM   #69
Ramos
Colonel
 
Ramos's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 M235
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: So-Cal

Posts: 2,093
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
I am hesitant to post this especially on the anniversary but my father insists I uphold Prost's honor. He responds to your story like the engineer he is, Prost had a better winning percentage, he earned more avg points per race, he won more world championships, and he did not collide with other drivers half as often as Senna. During the two years they were teammates, Prost scored more points. If you want an exciting driver who will give you exhilarating qualifying laps, go with Senna. If you want to win points and races, it is Prost.

The numbers don't lie. Nuf' said.
So Prost was more consistant how does that make him faster exactly? The dude was so boring even when he talked.. No charisma, no passion what so ever Might as well have been an engineer not a racing driver... He collided with less people, cuz he was a wuss that never took chances... He is still alive today, but he is all but forgoten... That is not a legend in my eyes, just another boring driver who could not launch a car without stalling once they banned launch control.. (look it up)
Ramos is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-05-2009, 06:02 PM   #70
shpirate87
Captain
 
Drives: 335ix
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NJ

Posts: 706
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
So Prost was more consistant how does that make him faster exactly? The dude was so boring even when he talked.. No charisma, no passion what so ever Might as well have been an engineer not a racing driver... He collided with less people, cuz he was a wuss that never took chances... He is still alive today, but he is all but forgoten... That is not a legend in my eyes, just another boring driver who could not launch a car without stalling once they banned launch control.. (look it up)
Senna had more charisma and more passion, how does that make him faster exactly? I understand you are uncomfortable discussing the numbers because they are all in Prost's favor. I am not sure by what measure you judge Senna to be faster other than that one lap. If he was so good that he could win without taking reckless chances, I do not think that should be held against him. I define fast in a race car driver as winning races and by that measure Prost was faster.
shpirate87 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-05-2009, 06:27 PM   #71
xbook
Lieutenant Colonel
 
xbook's Avatar
 
Drives: '14 EBII M235i & '06 R53 GP
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northridge, CA

Posts: 1,536
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E82  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
I am hesitant to post this especially on the anniversary but my father insists I uphold Prost's honor. He responds to your story like the engineer he is, Prost had a better winning percentage, he earned more avg points per race, he won more world championships, and he did not collide with other drivers half as often as Senna. During the two years they were teammates, Prost scored more points. If you want an exciting driver who will give you exhilarating qualifying laps, go with Senna. If you want to win points and races, it is Prost.

The numbers don't lie. Nuf' said.
If we are talking all out speed, then using qualifying results as a yard stick is rather logical. In which case you have Senna getting 65 pole positions to Prost's 33. So in that regard Senna is the faster driver.

But also Senna never started his own F1 team either, so Prost has that going for him.
__________________
xbook is offline   Zimbabwe
0
Reply With Quote
      05-05-2009, 08:23 PM   #72
shpirate87
Captain
 
Drives: 335ix
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NJ

Posts: 706
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
If we are talking all out speed, then using qualifying results as a yard stick is rather logical. In which case you have Senna getting 65 pole positions to Prost's 33. So in that regard Senna is the faster driver.

But also Senna never started his own F1 team either, so Prost has that going for him.
I don't think qualifying is the best way to determine speed. I do not know about back then but today qualifying has a lot to do with fuel load. A better way to judge speed might be fastest lap in a race. All the drivers have the same fuel and tire issues at some point in a race and in this Prost was better than Senna. Prost had 41 fastest laps and Senna only 19.
shpirate87 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-05-2009, 08:40 PM   #73
xbook
Lieutenant Colonel
 
xbook's Avatar
 
Drives: '14 EBII M235i & '06 R53 GP
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northridge, CA

Posts: 1,536
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E82  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
I don't think qualifying is the best way to determine speed. I do not know about back then but today qualifying has a lot to do with fuel load. A better way to judge speed might be fastest lap in a race. All the drivers have the same fuel and tire issues at some point in a race and in this Prost was better than Senna. Prost had 41 fastest laps and Senna only 19.
Back then you were given 12 laps, and an hour to get the fastest lap. none of this load up your car with the race fuel, and have race settings on your car. Nope. Qualy used to be its own little war. And it is a very good way to show who was fastest out there.
__________________
xbook is offline   Zimbabwe
0
Reply With Quote
      05-05-2009, 08:48 PM   #74
shpirate87
Captain
 
Drives: 335ix
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NJ

Posts: 706
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
Back then you were given 12 laps, and an hour to get the fastest lap. none of this load up your car with the race fuel, and have race settings on your car. Nope. Qualy used to be its own little war. And it is a very good way to show who was fastest out there.
That sounds like a much better system than what we have now but I still think winning races or even fastest race lap is a better way to judge speed.

If you were a team principal and had a choice to have Prost in his prime or Senna, who would you choose. Because I was being paid to win races, I would take Prost. (really I would take Schumacher but...)
shpirate87 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-05-2009, 10:39 PM   #75
KANdaddy
Lieutenant Colonel
 
KANdaddy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Estoril 328i M Sport
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cali

Posts: 1,708
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by news 4 u View Post
Claims like that along with the usual "Senna v Schumacher" argument are pointless. We will never know who is best but one thing is for sure - they are, without a doubt, the 2 best drivers F1 has ever seen.
What is that pic in ur avatar? Looks kinda cool.
__________________
KANdaddy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2009, 10:03 AM   #76
sparoz
Brigadier General
 
sparoz's Avatar
 
Drives: VO 1///M; AW X3 30d
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunshine Coast

Posts: 4,816
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Makes me wonder what if Senna still alive...what impace he's gonna do with the current Formula world....
ummmm... the way he drove - he wouldn't have been alive even if it's not for san marino.

Depends on how you define fastest. Is it sheer pace or is it race pace? You will have a different list. I don't think you can also define who's the fastest in just the same car either, because I think it also depends on if it's a good car or a crappy one. For example, for the current season, if everyone's driving the Brawn/Red Bull - I would say Kimi would have been the quickest. But if you are talking about a car that's hard to drive - I would say Alonso/Hamilton would be the quickest. There's also the question who's the best racer - guys like Alonso, Heidfield, Hamilton are great racers, but Heidfield doesn't necessarily have good race pace. The other question also is how well they can develop the car as well - it is one of Schumi's and Alonso's ability - despite Schumi having the best car for a number of years, how much has he actually contribute to the car itself? Remember a driver's feedback is crucial in getting the car right.

So rather than listing the fastest - I would include the most valuable drivers first:

1. Alonso - great racer, great pace, able to help develop and setup the car, and able to race with a crappy car.
2. Hamilton - great racer, great pace, great killer instinct
3. Kimi - just sheer pace when the car works for him, good racer as well
4. Vettel - promising signs of great champion in the making - good sheer pace and race pace, showing signs he can setup the car correctly - probably haven't developed his killer instinct yet, and probably not as good as a racer than the others above
5. Button - good at everything and superb in the wet. He is showing what he can do in a quick car.

Fastest Sheer Pace (in a car that is best suited to them)
1. Kimi - enough said
2. Hamilton
3. Alonso
4. Webber - only if he doesn't sleep during the race
5. Trulli

Fastest Race Pace (in a good car)
1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Kimi
4. Button
5. Vettel

Best Racer
1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Heidfield
4. Button
5. Masa

Most Valuable - Recent years - well for all the drivers that I've seen anyway
1. Schumacher - 7 titles, and winning races in both good and bad cars
2. Prost - he always have a good car
3. Senna - extremely quick, too quick for his own good
4. Alonso - time will tell if he's going to be as good as Schumi
5. Mansell - He was winning races, just not titles

Worst driver 08, 09 - Pk - nuff said.
The worst underperformed driver 08,09 - Bourdais - he's in a good car, he should know how to win races, he should start racing and stop blaming. May be he won't get chucked out like Speed.
The Disappointment - Rosberg
__________________
1///M - Valencia Orange
X3 30d - Alpine White

Under Six Seconds http://www.under6s.com
sparoz is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2009, 10:19 AM   #77
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
 
E90SLAM's Avatar
 
Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

Posts: 60,997
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2006 330i  [4.67]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
Worst driver 08, 09 - Pk - nuff said.
The worst underperformed driver 08,09 - Bourdais - he's in a good car, he should know how to win races, he should start racing and stop blaming. May be he won't get chucked out like Speed.
The Disappointment - Rosberg
what happened to Nelson Piquet Jr.???


for what he's delivering from the past season and this year...he's just overrated....
__________________
E90SLAM is offline   Hong Kong
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2009, 11:07 AM   #78
sparoz
Brigadier General
 
sparoz's Avatar
 
Drives: VO 1///M; AW X3 30d
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sunshine Coast

Posts: 4,816
iTrader: (0)

pk = piquet
__________________
1///M - Valencia Orange
X3 30d - Alpine White

Under Six Seconds http://www.under6s.com
sparoz is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2009, 11:27 AM   #79
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
 
E90SLAM's Avatar
 
Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

Posts: 60,997
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2006 330i  [4.67]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
pk = piquet
__________________
E90SLAM is offline   Hong Kong
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:53 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST