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      04-29-2009, 10:11 AM   #67
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I have done numerous trackdays and Porsche event days and yes there is fade but after much more prolonged abuse than with an M3, I have only really suffered fade with a 911 after 45 mins of really hard braking with the pedal going softer after about 30mins but even with the softer pedal it still maintained the same braking performance.

I don't think any stock disc/pad setup will never fade after prolonged abuse but my point was that Porsche brakes are much better prepared to cope with track work than what BMW offer on the M3.
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      04-29-2009, 01:00 PM   #68
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...and the fade that you (footie) experienced was fluid fade.

Loss of pedal firmness = Fluid fade.
Loss of friction = Pad fade.
Loss of both = A fully heat soaked system.

When the pedal becomes soft, but still maintains good braking performance (still providing sufficient friction), that is due to your fluid boiling. A fresh fluid, and one with a higher dry boiling point, could have most certainly cured that.

Also, if your pads were wearing down, that also adds to the temperatures transferred directly to the caliper and fluid. Many people forget that brake pads also act as a heat sink...another great benefit of the Brembo BBK's...larger pad shapes, both by swept area and volume.
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      04-29-2009, 01:48 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary_C View Post
...and the fade that you (footie) experienced was fluid fade.

Loss of pedal firmness = Fluid fade.
Loss of friction = Pad fade.
Loss of both = A fully heat soaked system.

When the pedal becomes soft, but still maintains good braking performance (still providing sufficient friction), that is due to your fluid boiling. A fresh fluid, and one with a higher dry boiling point, could have most certainly cured that.

Also, if your pads were wearing down, that also adds to the temperatures transferred directly to the caliper and fluid. Many people forget that brake pads also act as a heat sink...another great benefit of the Brembo BBK's...larger pad shapes, both by swept area and volume.
Correct, the soft pedal is always fluid and when brake performance starts to go then that's pad which go off very quickly. At least now-a-days with vented disc the problem of warping seldom if ever happens now, lord knows how many front discs I replaced in my Vauxhall Nova due to warping.

P.S.

I did get to try two otherwise identical 997s, one with ceramics and the other normal steel discs, the braking performance is remarkably similar but as expected the ceramics never appear to go off, well not during my time with the car. Though I still wouldn't go for ceramics, it's an excess of money that I feel would be better spent else where.
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      04-29-2009, 02:37 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Since 99% of owners are unlikely to track their M3 then fitting expensive higher maintainence Brembo/AP whatever brakes makes no sense to BMW or M3 owners...and fitting a BBK for street use would be a total waste of money.
+1 Anyone here remember how the Infiniti G35 was orginally fitted with Brembo brakes when you got the sport package???

That didnt go over so well when people were burning through pads every 5000kms, so they did away with the Brembos in a couple years. I believe there was even a class action lawsuit filed in California over this!

How often are you guys really slamming the brakes at 130mph down to 40mph over and over again on your daily drive to work!??! and if so, I want to know your route to work, because I'll be driving that one too with my new BBK, heck i might even get one of these!

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      04-30-2009, 01:32 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Montreal View Post
LOL... next time you quote me you should quote my whole sentence. Here let me post it for you
haha! I did kinda take what you were saying out of context there.
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      04-30-2009, 04:01 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by serven7 View Post
haha! I did kinda take what you were saying out of context there.

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      05-01-2009, 06:36 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Absolutely.



Hmmm it didn't really need *that* much effort to induce pad fade in the E46 M3 with std pads. Taking out the brake duct cooling blanks (fitted for at least the UK market) did give some improvement but a few minutes of hard braking on a twisty cross country thrash would soon see the pedal start to soften. Not a big deal, ease off for a few corners and the brakes would come back but it was always there in the back of your mind. No shortage of braking power just pads that didn't have a high enough temperature range.
Was talking about full on race pads, fluid, lines, and brass guides. It stopped fine, in fact I don't think I was ever able to get it to fade even after hours of abuse - but when it heated up it went through pads, and deformed the calipers such that every corner was a new adventure. They lost accuracy and consistency at high temps.
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      05-01-2009, 11:18 PM   #74
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I noticed fade driving a canyon road in Malibu and not even driving hard. Probably due to the OEM setup more than anything, I'm sure race pads, fluids and ss lines would have made a difference.

My car went hard at the track on my Stoptechs at Spring Mountain. Not one bit of fade and damn did they grab hard each and every time we had to slow down. It's nice not to have to worry one bit about your brakes holding up during track use. It's worth it to me, I didn't even choose a color that was pretty.
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