BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-22-2009, 02:30 AM   #1
VanM3Lover
First Lieutenant
 
VanM3Lover's Avatar
 
Drives: 4.0 V8
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Van

Posts: 392
iTrader: (0)

LSD Break in procedure with picture!

Would you like to drive as described in the picture for 30 minutes?

My diff makes rubbing noise and chattering noise on very tight turns, maybe it's just not broken in.
Attached Images
 
VanM3Lover is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 05:12 AM   #2
Gladius
Two Wheels or Four?
 
Gladius's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 SG Z4MCoupe
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Colorado

Posts: 550
iTrader: (0)

I don't know about this procedure, but what you are describing is a known issue. Take it to the dealer and ask them to look up the TSB on it. They will replace the diff fluid with a new fluid that will "fix" the issue. I had mine done last week.
__________________

'07 SilverGrey Z4M Coupe
Gladius is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 07:45 AM   #3
foosh
Major
 
foosh's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 M3 E93
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD

Posts: 1,314
iTrader: (0)

For everyone who experiences this noise and has it quieted with a diff fluid additive, don't be surprised if the noise comes back. To some extent, it is the clutch packs in the LSD doing what they are designed to do. The noise is not indicative of any damage being done, and you can ignore it indefinitely.

Many will never hear it because they don't routinely make prolonged tight turns at low speeds (e.g. looping up or down in a multi-deck parking garage or as in the diagram above).

This noise is relatively common in all autos equipped with LSD and large tires. The LSD clutch packs are there to allow the inner tire to barely rotate, while the outer tire is rotating at a much greater relative rate. In tight turns at higher speeds, the relative difference in wheel rotation between inner and outer tires is minimal.
__________________
foosh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 10:33 AM   #4
MyKmYk
BMW Individual Junkie.
 
MyKmYk's Avatar
 
Drives: E36/E46/E90 M3, MCS Countryman
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: D/FW

Posts: 436
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to MyKmYk
Quote:
Originally Posted by foosh View Post
For everyone who experiences this noise and has it quieted with a diff fluid additive, don't be surprised if the noise comes back. To some extent, it is the clutch packs in the LSD doing what they are designed to do. The noise is not indicative of any damage being done, and you can ignore it indefinitely.

Many will never hear it because they don't routinely make prolonged tight turns at low speeds (e.g. looping up or down in a multi-deck parking garage or as in the diagram above).

This noise is relatively common in all autos equipped with LSD and large tires. The LSD clutch packs are there to allow the inner tire to barely rotate, while the outer tire is rotating at a much greater relative rate. In tight turns at higher speeds, the relative difference in wheel rotation between inner and outer tires is minimal.
Fantastic answer.
__________________

ATLANTIS & MORA
MyKmYk is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 11:00 AM   #5
GT3 Tim
Moderator
 
GT3 Tim's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA

Posts: 1,894
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyKmYk View Post
Fantastic answer.
Yep. Great answer.

If you want to hear LSD noise, jump in a 996 GT3! LOL. That phucker sounded like a Mr. Coffee machine on overdrive. LOL. perk perk perk...that's how I described it to a fellow owner....and it does sound like a coffee maker "perking", but x1,000. lol

LSD noise is what it is. They make noise. If yours doesn't, THAT is when I would be worried!
__________________
Tim (apparently likes "3" cars)
E90 M3 -- Current ride
2004 GT3 -- Sold
1997 M3/4 -- Sold
1995 M3 -- Sold
GT3 Tim is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 12:42 PM   #6
Kobaiyashi
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 08 E90 M3 (JetBlack/FoxRedExt)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: East Bay, CA

Posts: 311
iTrader: (0)

Just to be clear, is this the click, click, click noise (like a stick rubbing across a bicycle wheel) that I hear when I am turning in the parking garage or on a onramp?
__________________
Kobaiyashi is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 04:01 PM   #7
GTM
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
GTM's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crystal Lake, IL

Posts: 1,034
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to GTM Send a message via MSN to GTM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanM3Lover View Post
Would you like to drive as described in the picture for 30 minutes?

My diff makes rubbing noise and chattering noise on very tight turns, maybe it's just not broken in.

That procedure is recommended by aftermarket clutch type LSD manufacturers.
GTM is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 04:57 PM   #8
Dascamel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Dascamel's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bakersfield, CA

Posts: 1,662
iTrader: (0)

30 minutes seems very excessive? Your LSD probably doesn't see that much wear from a few track days.
__________________
2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim
2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options
2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)
Dascamel is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 05:00 PM   #9
erio
Captain
 
erio's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 JB M3, 2012 GTR
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: GA

Posts: 773
iTrader: (0)

Mine started making a rubbing type sound at about 3000 miles and only with slow sharp right turns. It does it very sporadically and really sounds like it's something coming from the front of the car. In fact, I had to take it to the service center 3 times because it was so inconsistant. It does seem to fade when the car is warmed up a bit. I took it to the head tech thinking it was the LSD and he said it doesn't sound like a differential and has no idea what it could be.....? Anyone think this could be the LSD and why only with right turns?
erio is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 06:05 PM   #10
foosh
Major
 
foosh's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 M3 E93
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD

Posts: 1,314
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by erio View Post
Mine started making a rubbing type sound at about 3000 miles and only with slow sharp right turns. It does it very sporadically and really sounds like it's something coming from the front of the car. In fact, I had to take it to the service center 3 times because it was so inconsistant. It does seem to fade when the car is warmed up a bit. I took it to the head tech thinking it was the LSD and he said it doesn't sound like a differential and has no idea what it could be.....? Anyone think this could be the LSD and why only with right turns?
There is a clutch pack for each half-shaft on each side of the diff. Slight differences in lubrication on one or the other clutch pack could cause one to make more noise than the other.
__________________
foosh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 06:59 PM   #11
LateBraking
Brigadier General
 
LateBraking's Avatar
 
Drives: Reliable Cars
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Pacific Standard Time

Posts: 3,878
iTrader: (27)

I saw the picture, read the title, too lazy to read through the rest.

This noise is normal in M cars, it's the clutch plates in the differential. The same noise comes out of my M3, and every other M3 really, if you try to listen for it.

If it really bothers you, then you can get an additive put inside your differential oil at the dealership. It will eliminate the noise by 2-3 days once added.

But really, it's not harmful to your differential, and it's all just a part of the M experience. If you wanted something without any quirks, you probably got the wrong car. M car's have a history of being quirky.
LateBraking is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 07:07 PM   #12
FifthStreetz
O! So Sour!!
 
FifthStreetz's Avatar
 
Drives: Fast e30 / Slow M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fort Lee, NJ

Posts: 15,504
iTrader: (24)

Garage List
2008 M3  [4.75]
My car doeant have that noise? Should i be concerned? Lol seems like having that noise is a good thing?
__________________
FifthStreetz is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 07:21 PM   #13
VanM3Lover
First Lieutenant
 
VanM3Lover's Avatar
 
Drives: 4.0 V8
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Van

Posts: 392
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FifthStreetz View Post
My car doeant have that noise? Should i be concerned? Lol seems like having that noise is a good thing?
What's your milage? I started hearing the noise 300 miles after the 1200 miles break in service.
VanM3Lover is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 07:24 PM   #14
foosh
Major
 
foosh's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 M3 E93
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD

Posts: 1,314
iTrader: (0)

Correct, you're likely to start hearing it after the LSD has gotten fully broken in. However, you may never hear it if you never do very tight, very slow and sharp turns.
__________________
foosh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 07:45 PM   #15
FifthStreetz
O! So Sour!!
 
FifthStreetz's Avatar
 
Drives: Fast e30 / Slow M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fort Lee, NJ

Posts: 15,504
iTrader: (24)

Garage List
2008 M3  [4.75]
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanM3Lover View Post
What's your milage? I started hearing the noise 300 miles after the 1200 miles break in service.
5000.
__________________
FifthStreetz is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 08:37 PM   #16
LateBraking
Brigadier General
 
LateBraking's Avatar
 
Drives: Reliable Cars
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Pacific Standard Time

Posts: 3,878
iTrader: (27)

Like I said, if it's the cause of concern, sleepless nights, and countless nightmares, go ask for the additive to be put in. However, just keep in mind that whenever any oil services are done to your differential, you will have to ask for the additive every time.

Not like you change your diff oil every 1k mile or anything ridiculous, but still something to keep in mind.

Personally, I like the noise. Reminds me that the M is an M.
LateBraking is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 09:06 PM   #17
consolidated
Major
 
consolidated's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,489
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Mine moaned like mad until I took it to the track, all gone except for the first tight turn on colder mornings.
consolidated is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 09:58 PM   #18
jbeene
Second Lieutenant
 
jbeene's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary

Posts: 257
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by foosh View Post
For everyone who experiences this noise and has it quieted with a diff fluid additive, don't be surprised if the noise comes back. To some extent, it is the clutch packs in the LSD doing what they are designed to do. The noise is not indicative of any damage being done, and you can ignore it indefinitely.

Many will never hear it because they don't routinely make prolonged tight turns at low speeds (e.g. looping up or down in a multi-deck parking garage or as in the diagram above).

This noise is relatively common in all autos equipped with LSD and large tires. The LSD clutch packs are there to allow the inner tire to barely rotate, while the outer tire is rotating at a much greater relative rate. In tight turns at higher speeds, the relative difference in wheel rotation between inner and outer tires is minimal.
I wondered what the hell that noise was. I hear it every morning in the parkade because naturally I leave my window open to listen to the V8.
__________________
11 E90 M3
14 F31 328 xdrive
jbeene is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 08:14 AM   #19
ersin
Brigadier General
 
ersin's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 IB E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maryland

Posts: 4,010
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FifthStreetz View Post
My car doeant have that noise? Should i be concerned? Lol seems like having that noise is a good thing?
This just means you're taking sharp corners too fast. Slow down and maybe you'll hear it.
__________________

I've been assimilated. 6MT/ZPP/18"/PS extended.
ersin is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 08:30 AM   #20
gr8000
Major
 
gr8000's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 - DCT
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Athens, Greece

Posts: 1,170
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to gr8000
I never had the diff noise - my car is a Jun '08 delivery with 15,700km.

As a matter of curiosity, are there any drawbacks when using the diff additive? If for instance will the discs slip smoother after using the additive (thus getting rid of the irritating sound), which could lead to a different LSD performance / behaviour?
gr8000 is offline   Greece
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 10:04 AM   #21
SenorFunkyPants
Colonel
 
SenorFunkyPants's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK

Posts: 2,259
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8000 View Post
As a matter of curiosity, are there any drawbacks when using the diff additive? If for instance will the discs slip smoother after using the additive (thus getting rid of the irritating sound), which could lead to a different LSD performance / behaviour?
Doing anything other than the BMW recommended change of diff oil would not be wise...especially adding aftermarket slip additives.
SenorFunkyPants is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 10:11 AM   #22
LateBraking
Brigadier General
 
LateBraking's Avatar
 
Drives: Reliable Cars
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Pacific Standard Time

Posts: 3,878
iTrader: (27)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Doing anything other than the BMW recommended change of diff oil would not be wise...especially adding aftermarket slip additives.
It's not aftermarket. It's warranty-covered service done at the dealership, using a BMW-created-and-approved additive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8000 View Post
I never had the diff noise - my car is a Jun '08 delivery with 15,700km.

As a matter of curiosity, are there any drawbacks when using the diff additive? If for instance will the discs slip smoother after using the additive (thus getting rid of the irritating sound), which could lead to a different LSD performance / behaviour?
As far as I MYSELF know, there is no change in performance, although you cannot perform differential oil services WITHOUT the additive from the time that you put the additive in.

If you drive it hard (AKA enthusiastically in a demanding, winding road) it should make a rapid ticking sound, like when your body is full of static electricity and you touch something metal over and over. If you drive it slowly in a tight circle with your steering wheel fully locked in a parking lot (or parking structure, the enclosed area will help you hear it) it should make a groaning sound, like the sound that sinking oil tankers make in movies. Try that if you WANT the noise.
LateBraking is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:19 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST