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      04-16-2009, 04:03 PM   #1
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BMW has my permission to BOOST the M5

Seriously, theere as been an uproar about the next-gen M5 using the X5/6M engines. Its lower revving, FI, etc. Our friends in Munich must've seroiusly gotten the memo. The M5 dosent have to be the fastest but it cant simply have its doors blown off. Do we agree on that? So, here is my endorsement.<- not that it matters.. Crank the boost!!

Here is the reason why:

2010 CTS-V
$60,000

0-60mph 3.9seconds

0-100mph 8.7seconds

1/4mi 12.2@119mph

5-60mph 4.1seconds
C/D observed mpg 14mpg


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/furious_four_doors/2009_cadillac_cts_v_automatic_short_take_road_test

It is unbelievably hard to hate this car.

What do want the new M5 to have??
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      04-16-2009, 04:09 PM   #2
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I agree with you totally. Plus doesn't the M5/M6 get 12-13mpg? Terrible. Yes I know the saying "If you can spend $100k on the car, then you can afford the gas".
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      04-16-2009, 04:22 PM   #3
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It should have a V-22, with eleventy billion horsepower that runs on hopes and dreams.












No, I totally agree with you. FI is the most efficient path.
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      04-16-2009, 05:44 PM   #4
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FI is the way to go.

The pwer ratings for the X5M is much better than the current M5. Same HP, big boost in torque.

For such a car, I could care less about more HP. More torque would be better.

... and if it even gets 20 mpg on the highway, I would say that would be incredible.
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      04-16-2009, 05:56 PM   #5
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If AMG can do away without FI and still be competitive in the HP war, why can't BMW?

Horsepower isn't the only thing you judge on a car. If someone is giving you either the CTS-V or the DB9 for free, which will you take?

550HP vs 470HP
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      04-16-2009, 06:01 PM   #6
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Yes!!!!! Well Said!
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      04-16-2009, 06:15 PM   #7
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Displacement always sacrifices fuel economy, even with high technology trickery. The future is not in displacement because the future is not in gasoline.
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      04-16-2009, 06:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wimpwgn View Post
If AMG can do away without FI and still be competitive in the HP war, why can't BMW?...
Most MB guys prefer the AMG 55 cars to the AMG 63 cars, at least that's been my experience. A lot of MB guys feel the FI engines were a lot better than the NA engines used now.
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      04-16-2009, 07:37 PM   #9
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im planning on picking up a cts-v after my 335 lease is up. pretty excited because its going to be our first american car so im curious to see what it has to offer...
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      04-17-2009, 12:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draman View Post
Most MB guys prefer the AMG 55 cars to the AMG 63 cars, at least that's been my experience. A lot of MB guys feel the FI engines were a lot better than the NA engines used now.
I agree. I'd take the E55 over the E63 by a mile
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      04-17-2009, 02:08 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draman View Post
Most MB guys prefer the AMG 55 cars to the AMG 63 cars, at least that's been my experience. A lot of MB guys feel the FI engines were a lot better than the NA engines used now.
I disagree. Based purely on power, the 55 is better. The 63 sounds better, is more responsive, and more linear.
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      04-17-2009, 02:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist View Post
I disagree. Based purely on power, the 55 is better. The 63 sounds better, is more responsive, and more linear.
thats your opinion but doesnt change the fact that most people (from his experience and mine) prefer the 55 over the 63s then again... the 63s keep improving and improving. i think the 55s just have more modding potential but thats about it. i really cant wait til the new E63 comes out though. that thing is going to be a blast to drive i bet...
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      04-17-2009, 07:34 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist View Post
I disagree. Based purely on power, the 55 is better. The 63 sounds better, is more responsive, and more linear.
I agree, if you want the brute power, the E55 is the way to go. If you want a better overall package, the e63 is the way to go.

And FYI, AMG is going to FI in their next engine. Rumors are it's the 6.2L engine with a turbo.
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      04-17-2009, 08:03 AM   #14
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CTS-V's are being discounted 5K here. I looked at a white one and it was nice.

On the 55/63 debate. I have heard several guys say the 55 is there choice for the quicker torque grab. The 63 is no slouch but I would lean to the 55 myself.
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      04-17-2009, 04:05 PM   #15
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Wouldnt it be nice if they put in a V-10 with a set of twins like a GT-35 and a tranny and motor that can handle 800whp? I wish they would cut the weight down a bit as well. But seriously a FI M5 is going to be
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      04-17-2009, 04:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen Z View Post
Displacement always sacrifices fuel economy, even with high technology trickery. The future is not in displacement because the future is not in gasoline.
If high displacement=low fuel economy what is the G8 GXP with a 6.2 liter V8 doing getting almost equal fuel economy as the 4.0 liter V8 that is in the M3( 13/20 for GXP and 14/20 for M3). And the G8 GXP weighs more then the M3. Or the Camaro SS with the same engine gets 16/25?
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      04-17-2009, 04:57 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
If high displacement=low fuel economy what is the G8 GXP with a 6.2 liter V8 doing getting almost equal fuel economy as the 4.0 liter V8 that is in the M3( 13/20 for GXP and 14/20 for M3). And the G8 GXP weighs more then the M3. Or the Camaro SS with the same engine gets 16/25?
GM has proven that you can have a high displacement, relatively high horsepower engine and not be a gas guzzler. The tech is out there.
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      04-19-2009, 09:19 AM   #18
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GM has proven that you can have a high displacement, relatively high horsepower engine and not be a gas guzzler. The tech is out there.

Ya BMW has already figured that out, which is why they are going FI on most of their cars.

335 for example, 300 hp stock- 28 mpg's highway 18 city

Tune it, 400hp- 26-28 mpgs...

I am basing these numbers off of my own car, and it has awd.
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      04-21-2009, 06:57 PM   #19
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GM has proven that you can have a high displacement, relatively high horsepower engine and not be a gas guzzler. The tech is out there.
It's called two overdrive gears.
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      04-21-2009, 07:14 PM   #20
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0-60 times and HP ratings are not what cars are about

the e60 M5 engine was astonishing because of its high revving linear power curve, not just because of its output.

if the M5 needs an increase in performance, then BMW should pursue that by maintaining the same philosophy and approach for which people love M cars in the first place.

Also, don't forget - the current M NA engines don't have direct injection yet.


here is my ideal for a new M5:

-Direct Injection V10 with ~550hp, 350lb-ft tq. redline @ ~9000rpm (wishful)
much improved fuel economy, and reduced weight

-Adaptive Drive System (anti body roll) and Dynamic Performance Control (torque vector) implemented without making the car feel too artificial and computerized.

-Overall reduced weight. (both from lighter base 5-series, and from liberal use of carbon and aluminum)

-Much increased level of track tuning for hardcore performance

-Much higher level of aero work. This will help in many way. First, it would further visually distinguish the M5 from the normal 5 (good for today's marketing playing field?). Reduced drag and lift would improve stability and reduce wind noise. It could also allow for an even higher top speed (more marketing clout?).

BMW could even take it up to another level by introducing ACTIVE AERO. possibly a retracting front spoiler or an extending rear spoiler (similar to the SL65BS). This would not only help performance, but is a pretty cool talking point.



anyways, if this direction was followed by BMW, I think the M5 would remain as a genuine super-sports sedan, unique from the RS6 and E63AMG.
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      04-21-2009, 10:05 PM   #21
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T bone will not approve of this lol. M5 does need that boost. I love the NA V10's magical high end, but with the CTS-V and RS6, a stock 4 years old design M5 doesn't cut it(But the M5 has aged very well)
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      04-21-2009, 11:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty_mcfly View Post
thats your opinion but doesnt change the fact that most people (from his experience and mine) prefer the 55 over the 63s then again... the 63s keep improving and improving. i think the 55s just have more modding potential but thats about it. i really cant wait til the new E63 comes out though. that thing is going to be a blast to drive i bet...
bingo. that's the only reason why the guys over at mbworld tend to like the 55s.
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