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      03-30-2009, 10:51 AM   #1
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Obama Fires GM CEO

Wow - The Government fires the General Motors CEO.

I'm suprised that a thread has not already started.

Is anyone suprised and/or shocked?

I'm not claiming that the GM has done a great job, but for the Government to let go of an automaker CEO is pretty shocking...
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      03-30-2009, 11:01 AM   #2
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Why is it shocking that the government would have a say in who the CEO is, given that GM is asking for a total of ~$20-25 billion from the government?
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      03-30-2009, 11:13 AM   #3
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Also canned most of the board.

Government aid should come at a very high price, and up until this point management has been getting off far too easy. They failed. They need to go.
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      03-30-2009, 11:27 AM   #4
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ah - thank you , my socialist comrades...

The democratic/capitalist inside me weeps
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      03-30-2009, 12:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCS View Post
ah - thank you , my socialist comrades...

The democratic/capitalist inside me weeps
Go fuck yourself with your self-righteous indignation.

If you have a better solution, that doesn't drive the country into a deeper recession than we already are, let's hear it.

Otherwise, what is going on is really not that different than a company going to the Gov't and having the Gov't restructure their debts under a bankruptcy.

What is sad, is that instead of trying to be part of the solution, you wrote this thread just so you could bait a response. That way you could post your socialist/communist tripe.
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      03-30-2009, 12:30 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
Go fuck yourself with your self-righteous indignation.

If you have a better solution, that doesn't drive the country into a deeper recession than we already are, let's hear it.


Otherwise, what is going on is really not that different than a company going to the Gov't and having the Gov't restructure their debts under a bankruptcy.

What is sad, is that instead of trying to be part of the solution, you wrote this thread just so you could bait a response. That way you could post your socialist/communist tripe.
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      03-30-2009, 12:44 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by 742 View Post
Also canned most of the board.

Government aid should come at a very high price, and up until this point management has been getting off far too easy. They failed. They need to go.

So if I, like tens of thousands or more business owners before me, get an SBA guaranteed small business loan, then the government has a right to not only tell me HOW to run my business, they have the right to tell me WHO can run my business? This is the precedent we're setting here. The Government is not in the business of RUNNING private business, even if they are loaning money.

Hell, the government is worse at running up a friggin debt than even GM is.



GM never went THIS far into the red...
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      03-30-2009, 12:45 PM   #8
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I'm sorry, refresh my memory..... When has government ever been good in business & not beaten by the private sector?

Waste Management: No
Water: No
Power: No
Military: No
Mail: No
Education: No
Agriculture: No
ect....: No

That's right! There has never been an government business sector that has been efficient. This is a big reason why I'm a true small government conservative, not like the Bush big government conservative years. Government programs do not work. The reason why our nation has gotten this far was because of the power to the people, not the power to the government.

Government Backed Businesses Will Always Be Inefficient. History teaches us that we can take that to the bank.....
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      03-30-2009, 12:48 PM   #9
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Wow, last I heard about him, was that he was "resigining effective immediately".
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      03-30-2009, 01:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
So if I, like tens of thousands or more business owners before me, get an SBA guaranteed small business loan, then the government has a right to not only tell me HOW to run my business, they have the right to tell me WHO can run my business? This is the precedent we're setting here. The Government is not in the business of RUNNING private business, even if they are loaning money.

Hell, the government is worse at running up a friggin debt than even GM is.



GM never went THIS far into the red...
Odd how none of you guys seemed to have a problem with the production workers getting beaten up as a condition of government loans. But when white collar people take a hit the tone on this board changes.

In this case GM wants a lot of taxpayer money. It follows that the taxpayer’s elected representatives have some say in how the business will be run. All loans come with restrictions, and the bigger the loan and the more desperate the situation the more strings that are attached.

If GM’s BOD does not like the deal they don’t have to take the money.
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      03-30-2009, 01:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 742 View Post
In this case GM wants a lot of taxpayer money. It follows that the taxpayer’s elected representatives have some say in how the business will be run. All loans come with restrictions, and the bigger the loan and the more desperate the situation the more strings that are attached.

If GM’s BOD does not like the deal they don’t have to take the money.

Again, it sets the precedent for ALL businesses that take out a governemnt loan (which is different than a governemnt grant), such as an SBA guaranteed loan ("you want a government business loan, we get to tell you how to run your business. In fact, we'll ask you to step down and we'll run it for you."). Hell, since the government is "bailing out" the financial sector and printing money that banks are supposed to give out as loans, it follows that ANY business loan is thus "taxpayer money" and the government is setting a precedent to be able to step in and try to run it.

And again, the governement has shown that it is worse at managing money than even GM. And ALL of it is taxpayer money. Where's the $1 a year mandatory congresscritter wage to get us out of this mess? Where's the government itself telling Chris Dodd to step down after putting in the language to the bill that allowed (or even forced) AIG to pay out those bonuses?

Why is it reasonable to give a trillion dollars to the fictitious "industry" which led to the recession, while it's unacceptable to give a few billion to an actual industry which makes tangible products? This all just seems surreal, if not outright insane to me. When this recession ends, do we really want to allow it to have washed what little seems to remain of actual domestic industry out to sea with it?
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      03-30-2009, 01:34 PM   #12
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AIG is next in line, just wait and see (who on earth give out rediculous bonuses this time is beyond me and for the exec to accept this bonus is equally rediculous).
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      03-30-2009, 02:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
So if I, like tens of thousands or more business owners before me, get an SBA guaranteed small business loan, then the government has a right to not only tell me HOW to run my business, they have the right to tell me WHO can run my business? This is the precedent we're setting here. The Government is not in the business of RUNNING private business, even if they are loaning money.

Hell, the government is worse at running up a friggin debt than even GM is.



GM never went THIS far into the red...


Are you telling me that there aren't ANY pre-qualifications you need to meet in order to qualify for an SBA loan?

Wrong.

There are a whole host of qualifications you must meet before getting an SBA loan. This is the same concept. If these car makers want to get loans, they must qualify.

When I get a home loan from Freddy or Fannie, they get to decide if I qualify with my brother on the title or not. If my brother's FICO scores suck, it's bye-bye having the brother on the title, or I don't get my gov't backed loan.

And where the heck where YOU while the deficit was exploding under the previous administration. It is just shocking that you so-called fiscal conservatives only pop your heads up long enough to throw mud-balls at others.

Now do you actually have an alternative to what's going on, or are you just here to throw mud-balls?
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      03-30-2009, 02:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
Again, it sets the precedent for ALL businesses that take out a governemnt loan (which is different than a governemnt grant), such as an SBA guaranteed loan ("you want a government business loan, we get to tell you how to run your business. In fact, we'll ask you to step down and we'll run it for you."). Hell, since the government is "bailing out" the financial sector and printing money that banks are supposed to give out as loans, it follows that ANY business loan is thus "taxpayer money" and the government is setting a precedent to be able to step in and try to run it.

And again, the governement has shown that it is worse at managing money than even GM. And ALL of it is taxpayer money. Where's the $1 a year mandatory congresscritter wage to get us out of this mess? Where's the government itself telling Chris Dodd to step down after putting in the language to the bill that allowed (or even forced) AIG to pay out those bonuses?

Why is it reasonable to give a trillion dollars to the fictitious "industry" which led to the recession, while it's unacceptable to give a few billion to an actual industry which makes tangible products? This all just seems surreal, if not outright insane to me. When this recession ends, do we really want to allow it to have washed what little seems to remain of actual domestic industry out to sea with it?
Actually I agree with much of what you say, except that I don’t think the government should be giving out business loans of any sort. However if they do give out money it should not be done blindly—which means they do have a say in the structure of the business. To do otherwise, spray money indiscriminately, would be just a repeat of the bank bailout.

We have just run a giant experiment in unregulated financial markets, championed by Greenspan, supported by Gramm and enabled by both Clinton and Bush II. It has failed disastrously. And a big part of the fallout is this country’s loss of appreciation for those who actually make things. GM has been badly managed and maybe hopeless, but it still sits on higher ethical ground than Wall Street.
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      03-30-2009, 03:04 PM   #15
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now the government can run the auto industry and run GM into a loss of trillions. just print more. and provide great service like the post office and DMV. yeah.
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      03-30-2009, 03:13 PM   #16
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So the government wants to get rid of the brilliant private sector that keeps the USA competitive in order to hire more go getters like the people at my DMV? Wow!
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      03-30-2009, 03:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
Are you telling me that there aren't ANY pre-qualifications you need to meet in order to qualify for an SBA loan?

Wrong.

There are a whole host of qualifications you must meet before getting an SBA loan. This is the same concept. If these car makers want to get loans, they must qualify.

When I get a home loan from Freddy or Fannie, they get to decide if I qualify with my brother on the title or not. If my brother's FICO scores suck, it's bye-bye having the brother on the title, or I don't get my gov't backed loan.

And where the heck where YOU while the deficit was exploding under the previous administration. It is just shocking that you so-called fiscal conservatives only pop your heads up long enough to throw mud-balls at others.

Now do you actually have an alternative to what's going on, or are you just here to throw mud-balls?
You're just a complete moron, aren't you?

Yes, you have prequalifications to get an SBA loan. Not one of those qualifications states that the loan officer can come in and fucking REPLACE you at their whim NOR do those prequalifications allow them to tell you how to operate your business. Been there, done that. When you grow up and get out of your mommy's basement, you might learn that.

Oh, and we don't need an instant knowledge of the complete fix to know when the current approach is fucking wrong. But you're too stupid to see that, too.

Oh, and where was I when the previous idiots were spending too much money? Preparing to vote them out (but not vote in the current administation, thank you). So, since I did complain about the previous administration AND I didn't vote for the current one, I can complain all I fucking want to.
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      03-30-2009, 03:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCS View Post
Wow - The Government fires the General Motors CEO.

I'm suprised that a thread has not already started.

Is anyone suprised and/or shocked?

I'm not claiming that the GM has done a great job, but for the Government to let go of an automaker CEO is pretty shocking...

And how much was his bonus?
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