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      03-05-2009, 04:37 PM   #1
busman76
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E90 M3 Sedan and H&R Spring

So I called **********s today to order my H&R springs and the guy on the other end told me to expect to be replacing my shocks in 9months with normal driving. I told him I only drive like 7k year and he said I would be lucky to get 12 mo before my shocks are blown. WOW!!! Is this true?
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      03-05-2009, 04:44 PM   #2
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I highly doubt that. I have them for my E90M3 and will be installing them in a week or two. There are others on here who have had their springs on for a year or close to 10k miles. That's just dumb on **********s part. They have no evidence of that and they're potentially losing a sale.
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      03-05-2009, 04:49 PM   #3
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I should have probably guessed so since the guy was also quoting me $100 more than published on their website.
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      03-05-2009, 05:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny212 View Post
I highly doubt that. I have them for my E90M3 and will be installing them in a week or two. There are others on here who have had their springs on for a year or close to 10k miles. That's just dumb on **********s part. They have no evidence of that and they're potentially losing a sale.
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Originally Posted by busman76 View Post
I should have probably guessed so since the guy was also quoting me $100 more than published on their website.
Talked to salesmen who you talked to and conversation sounds accurate. He said 12-15 months (this obviously depends on how agressive the driver is). But that is an accurate assessment for the springs which, are more agressive then the OEM shocks which are not valved for the more agressive lowered setup - this will tend to shorten the life of the shocks. Your OEM shocks generally are rated for 65-70k miles (normal street driving every day) - with different springs your shock life gets reduced quite a few.

No way to say, how long exactly a shock life will last but this is a good estimate from the thousands of customers whom have reported back.

So not dumb, but honest and a true assessment. If that meant losing a sale for being honest and keeping you the customer informed then so be it.

As to the price quoted it was exactly as is on the site here: http://www.**********s.com/product.a...Springs_E90_PR

Not really sure what the confusion is. We are here to help you and inform you with your decisions.
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      03-05-2009, 05:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busman76 View Post
So I called **********s today to order my H&R springs and the guy on the other end told me to expect to be replacing my shocks in 9months with normal driving. I told him I only drive like 7k year and he said I would be lucky to get 12 mo before my shocks are blown. WOW!!! Is this true?
No, it's not true. You're perfectly fine with a spring swap and your shocks will lead a long and happy life.

Will it be as long as a factory BMW Spring/Shock combo? Probably not. But it's not going to accelerate wear to that degree.
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      03-05-2009, 06:15 PM   #6
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thanks Tom
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      03-05-2009, 06:29 PM   #7
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busman76, the sales rep was just giving you information based on what is common shock knowledge.

OE suspension shocks are valved to work with the springs that they come with, from the factory, taking into account both the spring height and rate and the shocks damp settings. Anytime you replace an OE spring with an aftermarket 'lowering' spring, it does change how the shock is going to handle that spring (keeping in mind that OE shocks are valved to OE springs). An after market lowering spring will reduce shock travel and cause pre-mature wear, as Tom@EAS mentioned also.

We are just here to give helpful information, we will not result to lying to our customers to sell.
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      03-05-2009, 06:34 PM   #8
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Thanks for the info. How does wheel spacer affect this whole situation. If I lower the vehicle with h&r and add wheels spacer 12 in front and 10 rear? Can I expect rubbing issues? I am just running the stock 18" wheels and tires for now. Sorry just a noob with a few questions here.
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      03-05-2009, 06:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
No, it's not true. You're perfectly fine with a spring swap and your shocks will lead a long and happy life.

Will it be as long as a factory BMW Spring/Shock combo? Probably not. But it's not going to accelerate wear to that degree.

Sorry but are you familiar with suspension? There are negative consequences to just a spring, shock absorbers do tend to fail quickly because they can't cope with such a narrow and harsh range of compression and rebound stroke. Your car will suffer from bump steer (when the car jumps sideways mid-corner when it hits a bump or dip in road) this happens when your suspension will bottom out (there will literally not be available travel) and contacts the bump stops with every road imperfection. Oh another thing you will need to get your car aligned afterwards as it needs to be set back to where it should be.
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      03-05-2009, 06:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busman76 View Post
So I called **********s today to order my H&R springs and the guy on the other end told me to expect to be replacing my shocks in 9months with normal driving. I told him I only drive like 7k year and he said I would be lucky to get 12 mo before my shocks are blown. WOW!!! Is this true?
**********s should hire people with a clue.
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      03-05-2009, 06:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron************ View Post
Sorry but are you familiar with suspension? There are negative consequences to just a spring, shock absorbers do tend to fail quickly because they can't cope with such a narrow and harsh range of compression and rebound stroke. Your car will suffer from bump steer (when the car jumps sideways mid-corner when it hits a bump or dip in road) this happens when your suspension will bottom out (there will literally not be available travel) and contacts the bump stops with every road imperfection. Oh another thing you will need to get your car aligned afterwards as it needs to be set back to where it should be.
I'm sorry - where's your M3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by busman76 View Post
Thanks for the info. How does wheel spacer affect this whole situation. If I lower the vehicle with h&r and add wheels spacer 12 in front and 10 rear? Can I expect rubbing issues? I am just running the stock 18" wheels and tires for now. Sorry just a noob with a few questions here.
Stock M3s benefit from a 12/15mm spacer setup just fine. here's a recent install on factory 18s on H&Rs:







Vehicle is equipped with 15mm/10mm spacers, 12mm will be a bit more aggressive.
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      03-05-2009, 06:53 PM   #12
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Anyway, what **********s is saying has some fundamental merit, but there is not nearly enough mileage on the E9x M3 to determine the long term durability of the EDC or non-EDC shocks and struts with stiffer springs. Many people have run stiffer springs on E46 M3s for years without any appreciable, accelerated wear on their shocks. There are M5 and M6 owners with EDC equipped cars who have not had issues with stiffer springs, and they've been running them for a few years now. It's certainly prudent to caution a potential customer that accelerated shock wear is a risk associated with stiffer springs, but to flatly tell him that his shocks will be blown out "in 9 months with normal driving" is stupid.
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      03-05-2009, 06:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
Anyway, what **********s is saying has some fundamental merit, but there is not nearly enough mileage on the E9x M3 to determine the long term durability of the EDC or non-EDC shocks and struts with stiffer springs. Many people have run stiffer springs on E46 M3s for years without any appreciable, accelerated wear on their shocks. There are M5 and M6 owners with EDC equipped cars who have not had issues with stiffer springs, and they've been running them for a few years now. It's certainly prudent to caution a potential customer that accelerated shock wear is a risk associated with stiffer springs, but to flatly tell him that his shocks will be blown out "in 9 months with normal driving" is stupid.
100% agree. It's definitely not something to panic about.

OP: Install the springs and go have some fun in your M3. It's the key basis behind the passion of modding our cars.
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      03-05-2009, 06:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
I'm sorry - where's your M3?
I am sorry - I didn't know I had to own the car to talk about suspension? Nope, I don't currently own an M3. I daily drive a S2000 and my track car is an AE86. I don't know how this is relevant to the thread. Maybe you can enlighten me.

The car has been out now, what 12 months since it's release? Lets give it another 6 months for people to report back on their suspension effects after using just spring replacements which have been out for an even shorter period of time.

Comments like that, are what gives the BMW community a bad name and negative image, you are doing a disservice to this forum.

Last edited by Ron@Modbargains; 03-05-2009 at 08:06 PM.
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      03-05-2009, 07:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busman76 View Post
Thanks for the info. How does wheel spacer affect this whole situation. If I lower the vehicle with h&r and add wheels spacer 12 in front and 10 rear? Can I expect rubbing issues? I am just running the stock 18" wheels and tires for now. Sorry just a noob with a few questions here.
No problem busman76, we're all here to help in anyway that we can.

Wheel spacers, as I'm sure you already know, brings the wheel out more resulting in more negative offset. A 12mm / 10mm spacer will be just fine for the E9X M3 as Tom said also.

This is just for your information, nothing to do with the set-up that you're thinking about running. Wheels with TOO extreme of a negative offset can cause increased steering wheel kick-back and put more stress on the vehicles entire suspension.
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      03-05-2009, 07:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
Anyway, what **********s is saying has some fundamental merit, but there is not nearly enough mileage on the E9x M3 to determine the long term durability of the EDC or non-EDC shocks and struts with stiffer springs. Many people have run stiffer springs on E46 M3s for years without any appreciable, accelerated wear on their shocks. There are M5 and M6 owners with EDC equipped cars who have not had issues with stiffer springs, and they've been running them for a few years now. It's certainly prudent to caution a potential customer that accelerated shock wear is a risk associated with stiffer springs, but to flatly tell him that his shocks will be blown out "in 9 months with normal driving" is stupid.

No on said flately that it will blow out in 9 months - Mr. busman76 talked to one of the sales reps and asked him for recommendations on suespension and thoughts about it and that how the converstation started. From there the sales person let him know that typically 12- 15 months was the typical customer life for OEM shocks with lowered springs.

I would agree, there hasn't been enough studies done with EDC equipped vehicles, but I believe the basic suspension concepts still apply with the shocks.
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      03-05-2009, 07:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron************ View Post
I am sorry - I didn't know I had to own the car to talk about suspension? Nope, I don't currently own an M3. I daily drive a S2000 and my track car is an AE86. I don't know how this is relevant to the thread. Maybe you can enlighten me.

The car has been out now, what 12 months since it's release? Lets give it another 6 months for people to report back on their suspension affects after using just spring replacements which have been out for an even shorter period of time.

Comments like that, are what gives the BMW community a bad name and negative image, you are doing a disservice to this forum.

Just ordered mine from Tire Rack. They price matched Thx. I would have still ordered from you guys but "I figured my negative image $$ might not be any good". THX
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      03-05-2009, 07:33 PM   #18
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Just ordered mine from Tire Rack. They price matched Thx. I would have still ordered from you guys but "I figured my negative image $$ might not be any good". THX
I was referring to the comment from Tom - about owning an M3.

Enjoy the springs and do post a review for all members.
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      03-05-2009, 07:48 PM   #19
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Just ordered mine from Tire Rack. They price matched Thx. I would have still ordered from you guys but "I figured my negative image $$ might not be any good". THX
Lmaoooo

Ur a douche. U reply back like this to try to rub it in their face that u didnt give them ur business right after they just tried to helpe u out. I hope ur springs wear out in 2 months!
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      03-05-2009, 07:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
I'm sorry - where's your M3?



Stock M3s benefit from a 12/15mm spacer setup just fine. here's a recent install on factory 18s on H&Rs:







Vehicle is equipped with 15mm/10mm spacers, 12mm will be a bit more aggressive.
So this M3 has 15 front 10 rear? Is'nt the flare on the rear of the fender of the E90 more pronounced? If so maybe I could tuck 12 in the rear? If not I am loving that 15/10 combo.
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      03-05-2009, 08:42 PM   #21
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So this M3 has 15 front 10 rear? Is'nt the flare on the rear of the fender of the E90 more pronounced? If so maybe I could tuck 12 in the rear? If not I am loving that 15/10 combo.

The photos I linked in my previous post are 15mm/10mm (aFe's M5 is in the background on a separate project). The e90s are rumored to have a bit more room in the back than the e92s, the 15/12mm combos have been doing very well with good customer feedback.

I have an e90 M3 coming in tomorrow - I can compare room in the rear vs our Coupe if you would like.
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      03-05-2009, 08:48 PM   #22
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Thanks Tom I would greatly appreciate it
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