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      09-19-2006, 06:00 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Noelle
All Tony blair can do is speak and spin..... the majority of Brits want him to leave office...
He is leaving office, before the next election.
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      09-19-2006, 08:06 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBob
Why does the average man on the street want him gone?
I don't think this is 'the average man in the streets' view, but then I am a bit of a new labour fan.

My experience is any very sucessful leader goes a bit mad after a while - the power gets to them.

Blair has always had a problem with the 'spin' accusation, because he is just to damn slick. More recently he has been seen to have 'gone against the people' or misled them specifically over the Iraq War (ref the dodgy dossier).

His detractors say he lacks humility - I personally disagree. Either way he's not going to fight another term - I think this is because he doesn't want it to end for him as it did for Margaret Thatcher. He wants to go out on a high and leave a positive legacy - that's why he is so interested in international affairs at the moment.

The problem is that his peers are engaging in a nasty bit of gamesmanship to try to get a bit of power out of the vacuum that will be left when he goes. Of course he is fighting this because he is determined to leave on his own account and not be pushed.

So I don't think the majority view is that he must go, but there are people who feel he has betrayed or misled them and the biggest area of controversy is our unflinching support of the USA, our failure to act over the Lebanon situation and the 'legality' of the invasion of Iraq.

According to a recent BBC poll the majority of Brits think we should leave Iraq and Afghanistan right now and adopt a new foreign policy. Ironically, my views on this would be described as right wing, which is why it seems odd (to me) that you guys keep calling me a liberal lefty.
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      09-19-2006, 11:31 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBob
Why does the average man on the street want him gone?
Because he has balls and they don't.
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      09-19-2006, 11:34 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
I don't think this is 'the average man in the streets' view, but then I am a bit of a new labour fan.

My experience is any very sucessful leader goes a bit mad after a while - the power gets to them.

Blair has always had a problem with the 'spin' accusation, because he is just to damn slick. More recently he has been seen to have 'gone against the people' or misled them specifically over the Iraq War (ref the dodgy dossier).

His detractors say he lacks humility - I personally disagree. Either way he's not going to fight another term - I think this is because he doesn't want it to end for him as it did for Margaret Thatcher. He wants to go out on a high and leave a positive legacy - that's why he is so interested in international affairs at the moment.

The problem is that his peers are engaging in a nasty bit of gamesmanship to try to get a bit of power out of the vacuum that will be left when he goes. Of course he is fighting this because he is determined to leave on his own account and not be pushed.

So I don't think the majority view is that he must go, but there are people who feel he has betrayed or misled them and the biggest area of controversy is our unflinching support of the USA, our failure to act over the Lebanon situation and the 'legality' of the invasion of Iraq.

According to a recent BBC poll the majority of Brits think we should leave Iraq and Afghanistan right now and adopt a new foreign policy. Ironically, my views on this would be described as right wing, which is why it seems odd (to me) that you guys keep calling me a liberal lefty.
Thanks for explaining the views over there. I think if Blair was over here he would be kind of like Lieberman. Strong on defense but socially and economically liberal. Is this right?
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      09-20-2006, 05:14 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawarrant
Thanks for explaining the views over there. I think if Blair was over here he would be kind of like Lieberman. Strong on defense but socially and economically liberal. Is this right?
To answer this you need to understand about new labour.

Blair came to power through the reform of the labour party. This was the party of the workers and was very much under the thumb of the unions until the emergence of 'new labour'.

Old labour can best be understood by looking at clause 4 of it's manifesto. This used to be printed on the back of EVERY party members ID card:

"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service".

They also used to sing the red flag at the end of party meetings

New labour re-wrote this clause as follows:

‘The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few. Where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe. And where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect.’

The first version is alligned more closely to communism and the second is more firmly capitalist and (I think) echoes the 'american dream'.

Blairs economic policy is as capitalist as the conservative parties, however they have de-politicised the economy by handing interest rate control back to the bank of england. I think this act alone has quelled the 'boom and bust' cycle.

Blair has been criticised for being a party of high taxation by the back door (stealth taxes), but this has been a relatively minor criticism and has not led him to lose the support of industry.

I would describe Blairs position as strong on defence, focussed on international politics, and financially right wing (ie capitalist and non-interventionalist), with a strong sense of social responsibility.

One thing that he has done which illustrates the social responsibility is to act on third world debt. That alone makes his premiership worthwhile IMO.
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      09-21-2006, 11:39 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBob
I cringe when I see the words socialist and manifesto.
I can understand that 'socialism' makes right wingers wince - that alone makes it worthwhile.

But in the UK all parties have a 'manifesto' - why would that upset you ?
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      09-22-2006, 11:44 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBob
The only time that we hear the word manifesto is in conjunction with the word communist.
Relax - it's not just the commies over here in blighty ... all the political parties have a manifesto - even the right wingers:

http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do...sto.index.page
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