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      02-16-2009, 06:59 PM   #89
Cyclenirvana
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Fantastic! Thanx man
My pleasure. You're most welcome.
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      02-17-2009, 11:58 AM   #90
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I wonder if the drivers who like these new fangled automatic push this pull that tranmissions, are the same ones who grew up playing Nintendo or what ever video game consol was around.

These new automatic transmissions can help a normal driver appear more skilled in the process of working a car up and down through its gears. While a manual will show every little mistake you make and punish you for it.

I don't think the issue is wheather the DCT or MT6 is faster, but rather do you want to take the time to master a manual tranmission, or get in the car and start pushing buttons.

Myself... I have never owned or even played a video game, and I have never owned any kind of automatic transmission. I prefer the manual, and I am constantly trying to perfect the coordination and skill it takes to effectively operate a manual transmission in all environments I can get my car in.
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      02-17-2009, 12:15 PM   #91
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I wonder if the drivers who like these new fangled automatic push this pull that tranmissions, are the same ones who grew up playing Nintendo or what ever video game consol was around.

These new automatic transmissions can help a normal driver appear more skilled in the process of working a car up and down through its gears. While a manual will show every little mistake you make and punish you for it.

I don't think the issue is wheather the DCT or MT6 is faster, but rather do you want to take the time to master a manual tranmission, or get in the car and start pushing buttons.

Myself... I have never owned or even played a video game, and I have never owned any kind of automatic transmission. I prefer the manual, and I am constantly trying to perfect the coordination and skill it takes to effectively operate a manual transmission in all environments I can get my car in.
The most skilled drivers in the world, like Louis Hamilton and Phillippi Massa, use transmissions closer to DCT than MT6. I think it's because those transmissions are faster, not because the users also play video games.

BTW, I drive an MT6 and selected specifically because I think it'll be better in autocross. On track and at the dragstrip I suspect that the DCT would be faster. Either transmission is great fun (I've driven the DCT extensively at the Performance Center and plan to log more laps at VIR in May), you just have to understand each.

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      02-17-2009, 12:26 PM   #92
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The most skilled drivers in the world, like Louis Hamilton and Phillippi Massa, use transmissions closer to DCT than MT6. I think it's because those transmissions are faster, not because the users also play video games.

BTW, I drive an MT6 and selected specifically because I think it'll be better in autocross. On track and at the dragstrip I suspect that the DCT would be faster. Either transmission is great fun (I've driven the DCT extensively at the Performance Center and plan to log more laps at VIR in May), you just have to understand each.

Dave
Sorry but using F1 drivers as justification for owning DCT is a no-go, they are using it because in their field of motorsport the number of gear changes would ultimately lead to the odd mis-shift that could destroy the gearbox in an instant.

likestogofast

At 42 I don't think I grew up with Grand Turismo or any other computer type game, my choice for DCT was made for me with an ankle problem, but after exampling it first in an E93 M3 I can honestly say I was sold on it, the gearbox boardens the appeal of the M3 far beyond where it sits in manual form.
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      02-17-2009, 12:32 PM   #93
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Myself... I have never owned or even played a video game, and I have never owned any kind of automatic transmission. I prefer the manual, and I am constantly trying to perfect the coordination and skill it takes to effectively operate a manual transmission in all environments I can get my car in.
A person who has completely missed out on one of modern societies greatest leisure inventions - the video game - is likely the type of person who would not realize the values and benefits of such a transmission system.

I also do not believe the contention that DCT proponents are the typical video game crowd. I grew up not only playing video games but driving the wheels off of anything I could get my hands on 2,3 and 4 wheels and even tracks. However, until automated manual transmissions became this good I religously stuck with MT.
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      02-17-2009, 12:42 PM   #94
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Sorry but using F1 drivers as justification for owning DCT is a no-go, they are using it because in their field of motorsport the number of gear changes would ultimately lead to the odd mis-shift that could destroy the gearbox in an instant..

Oh come on. They were using six and eight speed manuals before the move to automatic. In other series manuals and sequentials are still used due to rule restrictions. F1 allows semi-automatics because it encourages development of technology that transfers into road cars.

If MT6s were the sure fire way to go fast, plenty of young whipper-snappers would be learning to drive sticks. It's no harder to learn than it was when you were "young." (Clutches are actually easier for the most part.) Your thesis is very weak, IMHO.

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      02-17-2009, 01:43 PM   #95
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The most skilled drivers in the world, like Louis Hamilton and Phillippi Massa, use transmissions closer to DCT than MT6. I think it's because those transmissions are faster, not because the users also play video games.Dave
Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton born 7 January 1985 and Felipe Massa born April 25, 1981 most likley grew up playing video games.

Formula 1 cars are auto clutched paddle shifting computer controlled because someone found a way around the rule book to do it.

I am in now way trying to say the technology that goes into making automatic transmissions is bad, but it will promote actions that will eventually cause the demise of manual transmissions. How many young kids and Lewis and Felipe are young kids, do not know how to operate a car with three pedals?

I would like to see all automatic transmissions outlawed in Formula 1 racing. I think you will then really find out who is the best driver.
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      02-17-2009, 01:52 PM   #96
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I am only giving my opinion here... In noe way did I mean to sya that if you played video games you did not know how to drive a manual car.

If we look at history, anytime an automated way is devised to handle something that is currently manual. The skill of the manual process is lost in time. Look at the orange peel in your paint of your M3... its acceptable because its an automated process... go look at a car painted 25 years ago.
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      02-17-2009, 02:24 PM   #97
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A person who has completely missed out on one of modern societies greatest leisure inventions - the video game - is likely the type of person who would not realize the values and benefits of such a transmission system.
+1000

Welcome to the 21st century.
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      02-17-2009, 02:41 PM   #98
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Im sorry... but because I wasnt one of those kids who sat on his ass and played video games, I missed out on one of the 20th centuries greatest leisure inventions. I started racing carts, boats and dirt bikes when I was 8. I prefered to do the real thing... I still do till this day... except now all I race is bikes and boats... My M3 is my daily beeter car, my Ducati and my Fountain are my real toys
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      02-17-2009, 02:44 PM   #99
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I also want to appologize for taking this thread off topic... I did not mean to.
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      02-17-2009, 03:33 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by likestogofast View Post
Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton born 7 January 1985 and Felipe Massa born April 25, 1981 most likley grew up playing video games.

Formula 1 cars are auto clutched paddle shifting computer controlled because someone found a way around the rule book to do it.
.
Are you saying that Hamilton and Massa can't drive a stick???

I think you'd be very, very wrong. I'd bet that they've even raced non-syncro crash boxes in their lesser formula days.

Can you drive a crash box, old man? You haven't lived until you need to double clutch to downshift. Forgetting about all other driving skills, I'd bet these young men would drive circles around your manual shifting abilities.

Don't get me wrong, I love manual transmissions, particularly the close ratios in a nice ff or Formula Mazda, where you just flex your wrist to shift and the clutch has two positions, on and off. Still, much as I enjoy that and double clutching, I know that a properly executed semi-automatic can be faster.

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      02-17-2009, 03:46 PM   #101
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Can you drive a crash box, old man?
Dave
I love this line...

This old man... that would be me...

By the way I have 2 crash boxes mating 2 1650 blown Sterlings to a set of Dry Sump 6's... Look it up
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      02-17-2009, 10:34 PM   #102
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Im sorry... but because I wasnt one of those kids who sat on his ass and played video games, I missed out on one of the 20th centuries greatest leisure inventions. I started racing carts, boats and dirt bikes when I was 8. I prefered to do the real thing... I still do till this day... except now all I race is bikes and boats... My M3 is my daily beeter car, my Ducati and my Fountain are my real toys
There are negative things about video games just as there are positive things. The same is true for racing/driving any type of vehicle. But overall I would strongly contend that video games have been a great thing for society. I have done my share of "the real thing" in driving tons of things with 1, 2, 3, 4 wheels and tracks (snowmobiles), powered and self propelled as well on about every surface imaginable. It it not an either/or situation for all as it has been for you. I wish I still played "modern" video games. I am missing out for sure.

Don't worry about the off topic thing. The forum tends to drift pretty well, sometimes graciously others not. Cheers.
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      02-17-2009, 10:48 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by likestogofast View Post
Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton born 7 January 1985 and Felipe Massa born April 25, 1981 most likley grew up playing video games.

Formula 1 cars are auto clutched paddle shifting computer controlled because someone found a way around the rule book to do it.

I am in now way trying to say the technology that goes into making automatic transmissions is bad, but it will promote actions that will eventually cause the demise of manual transmissions. How many young kids and Lewis and Felipe are young kids, do not know how to operate a car with three pedals?

I would like to see all automatic transmissions outlawed in Formula 1 racing. I think you will then really find out who is the best driver.
I can assure you Massa and Hamilton are both very capable of driving manual transmissions.

These "Nascar guys can't drive because they only turn left" and "anyone can drive an F1 car with a paddle shifted tranmission" posts are just not very realistic.

These drivers are world class athletes and have nerves of steel. F1 cars expose the drivers to G forces that most airplane pilots never experience. I have years of track experience in a wide variety of vehicles and I can't even begin to imagine what it would feel like to drive an F1 car.

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      02-18-2009, 06:35 AM   #104
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I may have been a little off yesterday in my comments... Let me try and paraphrase... We all drive M3's I assume, we all know that this car is great luxary car that has quite a bit of get up and go. I prefer to feel more connected to my driving experience and I think that an automatic transmission can take some of that away.

The video game scenario may have been a bit of a stretch, but as a pilot who has flown both non-actuated and actuated controled aircraft, I can attest the computer driven thing takes the romance out of the action.
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