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      01-26-2009, 05:30 AM   #1
smookey
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Need a harness

Hi everybody,

I need a Harness for my M3, as i'll track it a lot in 2009, and with my new AP racing BBK, it will be more than necessary!!

I found the Schroth Quickfit which seemd great as we can put it off easily, but it's only for M3 E46....



Do you know any brand which make a good one for M3 E92.

Any advice or help are welcome!!
Thank you all.
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      01-26-2009, 06:37 PM   #2
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I'm looking for the same too.
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      01-27-2009, 02:18 AM   #3
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call up HMS Motorsports

they are knowledgeable people and seem to know a lot about BMWs

the quick fits might work, as the seat belt mounting locations on the e92 are prob no different than the e46.
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      01-27-2009, 08:07 AM   #4
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Do you think the seat belt mounting locations are the same??

I'll contact HMS motorsport. thank you very much, i'll let you guys know...
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      01-28-2009, 03:42 PM   #5
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I have the Schroth harnesses in my e39 M5 and e46 M3 (stolen).....asked the HMS guys about harnesses for the new M3s up at Watkins Glen in September and they said that the seats have to go through testing by Schroth before belts will be available........Joe
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      01-29-2009, 02:33 AM   #6
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True....HMS told me the Rallye 4 points is ok, but that there is not a quick fit for the moment.... bad news..
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      01-29-2009, 02:12 PM   #7
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i was thinking of harnesses too but the track events i go to here in canada specifically says that harnesses are not allowed unless u have a specific harness bar installed. meh... sucks for me.
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      02-02-2009, 03:00 PM   #8
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For those considering Harness please take the time to think about roll protection. Take it from someone who has been around the track a lot. You do not want to be upside down in the car with a Harness without a rollbar.

At my events I will not let someone run a harness withou a roll bar.
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      02-02-2009, 03:14 PM   #9
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problem is that on well known euro tracks, rollbar makes the car a competition tuned one, and avoid participating of a lot of events.....
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      02-02-2009, 03:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSMRX7 View Post
For those considering Harness please take the time to think about roll protection. Take it from someone who has been around the track a lot. You do not want to be upside down in the car with a Harness without a rollbar.

At my events I will not let someone run a harness withou a roll bar.
The Ontario Solo ! rules also read that way,and it makes a lot sense to myself.
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      02-02-2009, 05:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSMRX7 View Post
For those considering Harness please take the time to think about roll protection. Take it from someone who has been around the track a lot. You do not want to be upside down in the car with a Harness without a rollbar.

At my events I will not let someone run a harness withou a roll bar.
I 100% agree. The risk of running a harness without a roll bar is too large to justify not getting one. The rules are there for a reason. I would either invest in the roll bar and run the harness, or opt for something intermediary, like a cg-lock.
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      02-02-2009, 07:04 PM   #12
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problem is that on well known euro tracks, rollbar makes the car a competition tuned one, and avoid participating of a lot of events.....
If you are willing to compromise your safety then go for it, but you will be much safer with just a standard belt. As other have stated a CGlock is a good in between solution.

Also don't forget to disconnect your airbags if yoy have a full face helmet.
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      02-04-2009, 09:44 AM   #13
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I don't want to compromise my safety, but i don't feel "locked" enough actually...

For the helmet, it's not a full face, but thank you...

Concerning CG lock, is it efficient?? did you try it?
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      02-04-2009, 11:22 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smookey View Post
I don't want to compromise my safety, but i don't feel "locked" enough actually...

For the helmet, it's not a full face, but thank you...

Concerning CG lock, is it efficient?? did you try it?

I have used a CG Lock before, and will use one in my M3. They keep your hips in place and allow your legs to relax. The chalenge is that you will still have a lot of shoulder movement, so my back still gets sore, and it does force you to hold the steering wheel too tight just like a regular seat belt. I know it is only a 1/2 solution, but safer than a harness.
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      02-04-2009, 12:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSMRX7 View Post
For those considering Harness please take the time to think about roll protection. Take it from someone who has been around the track a lot. You do not want to be upside down in the car with a Harness without a rollbar.

At my events I will not let someone run a harness withou a roll bar.
Care to elaborate?

I've heard this argument before, and I don't buy it. The quick fit (or is it rallye?) fastens to the seat belt anchor at shoulder height in the rear. The old argument that you can compress your spine in an accident doesn't apply. There was a valid argument about not using a harness bar due to roll-over concerns (the seat might not collapse in a roll-over). Without a harness bar, I don't see how a 4-point harness isn't better than a three point belt.

There will always be "what-if" arguments regarding safety equipment. You might as well say you won't ride in a car without 4, 5, 6 point belts because you can't support your Hans device. 4 point belts (properly installed and utilized) are safer than 3 point belts in the vast majority of situations.
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      02-04-2009, 12:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSMRX7 View Post
I have used a CG Lock before, and will use one in my M3. They keep your hips in place and allow your legs to relax. The chalenge is that you will still have a lot of shoulder movement, so my back still gets sore, and it does force you to hold the steering wheel too tight just like a regular seat belt. I know it is only a 1/2 solution, but safer than a harness.
Try locking the belt with the old seat slide technique. It will hold your shoulders and your hips tightly.

1 Move seat back about 4-6 inches.
2 Quick yank on belt to tighten and lock it.
3 Move seat forward to normal position with belt cinched up tight.
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      02-04-2009, 12:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Also don't forget to disconnect your airbags if yoy have a full face helmet.
I have not heard about airbags & full face helmets.What is up with that?
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      02-04-2009, 01:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Care to elaborate?

I've heard this argument before, and I don't buy it. The quick fit (or is it rallye?) fastens to the seat belt anchor at shoulder height in the rear. The old argument that you can compress your spine in an accident doesn't apply. There was a valid argument about not using a harness bar due to roll-over concerns (the seat might not collapse in a roll-over). Without a harness bar, I don't see how a 4-point harness isn't better than a three point belt.

There will always be "what-if" arguments regarding safety equipment. You might as well say you won't ride in a car without 4, 5, 6 point belts because you can't support your Hans device. 4 point belts (properly installed and utilized) are safer than 3 point belts in the vast majority of situations.
With or without a harness bar if you put a car on its lid the roof will colapse. If you do not have the mobility to move as the roof colapses then your head and neck will take the brunt of it. When you flip a car with a normal 3 point the shoulder harness slackens allowing you to be pushed towards the floor of the car (now the roof). To my understanding the Rallye replicated the tightening affect of impact that a 3 point does, but not the ability to release upon roll.
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      02-04-2009, 01:33 PM   #19
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I have not heard about airbags & full face helmets.What is up with that?
The location of the Helmet with regards to the airbag is known to cause neck injury.
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      02-04-2009, 02:00 PM   #20
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The location of the Helmet with regards to the airbag is known to cause neck injury.
I have instructed with a lot of well known groups and have never heard of this.Are these facts in print anywhere?I would sure like to know about this.
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      02-04-2009, 02:23 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSMRX7 View Post
With or without a harness bar if you put a car on its lid the roof will colapse. If you do not have the mobility to move as the roof colapses then your head and neck will take the brunt of it. When you flip a car with a normal 3 point the shoulder harness slackens allowing you to be pushed towards the floor of the car (now the roof). To my understanding the Rallye replicated the tightening affect of impact that a 3 point does, but not the ability to release upon roll.
I'm sure we can all come up with unique situations in which one design wins out over others, however, I still believe that a 4-point harness is safer than a 3 point in the majority of situations. Your point is valid, none-the-less. In a roll-over, with only an inch or two above one's helmet, even a slight collapse of the roof can have devastating consequences. I doubt, however, that a three point system is significantly safer in that situation.

I intend to have a pair of harnesses installed in my car before I take it to the track. I am sure that the majority of instructors are more comfortable with a four point than the stock belts. Four point belts also make it possible to utilize a Hans, which is safer still.
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      02-04-2009, 03:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
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I have instructed with a lot of well known groups and have never heard of this.Are these facts in print anywhere?I would sure like to know about this.
SPORTS CAR CLUB OF AMERICA, INC

PO Box 19400, Topeka, KS 66619-0400

(800) 770-2055 Fax (785) 232-7214 www.scca.com

Technical Services Participant Bulletin

DATE: November 16, 2004 FROM: National Staff TO: All Participants

SUBJECT: Airbag Advisory

It has been brought to the attention of SCCA Technical Services that the use of full-face or closed-face helmets while driving vehicles with active airbag restraint systems may result in injuries in the event of a crash that deploys the airbag. Because of the location of the steering wheel relative to a driverís position, the airbag axis is on a level with the driverís chin. In a crash with airbag deployment, contact with the chin area of a full-face helmet can be so powerful "that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be ruled out" (Hubert Gramling, FIA Institute, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999). This applies to vehicle that may be used in Solo, RallyCross, High Performance Car Control Clinics, etc.

Therefore, it is highly recommended that full-face helmets not be used in vehicles with functional airbag systems. Potentially more restrictive language is currently being considered for 2005, which could appear in an early 2005 issue of FasTrack. If you have any questions, please contact the SCCA at (800) 770-2055.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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