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      12-15-2008, 01:05 AM   #1
Fiebrudo
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Track days and M3 e93 vert

BMW CCA believes it is UNSAFE!!!! and won't allow an e93 unless you add a roll cage!!!!!

Unbelievable!

Where can I go, Porsche CCA (apparently they allow Boxters and 911 verts (I guess Porsche does stand behind the safety of their cars!) Any other alternatives?

Thanks
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      12-15-2008, 08:02 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiebrudo View Post
BMW CCA believes it is UNSAFE!!!! and won't allow an e93 unless you add a roll cage!!!!!

Unbelievable!

Where can I go, Porsche CCA (apparently they allow Boxters and 911 verts (I guess Porsche does stand behind the safety of their cars!) Any other alternatives?

Thanks
Buy a coupe
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      12-15-2008, 08:04 AM   #3
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Go cruising and fill the car up with chicks!
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      12-15-2008, 09:07 AM   #4
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That is a bit surprising. I haven't looked at crash ratings, but I wonder how the vert top holds up against the CF or moonroof tops in a roll over.
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      12-15-2008, 11:42 AM   #5
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its not as strong in a rollover im sure, but the windshield A pillars are reinforced, as well as there are popup roll bars behind each rear seat headrest (the black pieces) that deploy in a roll over....
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      12-15-2008, 11:51 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Big Windy View Post
That is a bit surprising. I haven't looked at crash ratings, but I wonder how the vert top holds up against the CF or moonroof tops in a roll over.
I saw a video of a M-B Sl or SLK with the retractable roof rolling on the Autobaun and the roof came off the car in the 1st impact on the roof.I am pretty sure that the coupe would fare much better whether it has the CF or S/R than the cab.I have refused to instruct in open top cars at track days that have permitted them to run at.
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      01-05-2009, 10:48 PM   #7
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boo!!!!!!!!!!!
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Last edited by guarnibl; 01-08-2009 at 05:37 PM.
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      01-06-2009, 03:53 AM   #8
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Most HPDEs don't allow convertibles without full roll bars any more. Don't blame the organizers, blame their insurance. If they could have you participate as-is of course they would, they want as many cars as they can get.

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(I guess Porsche does stand behind the safety of their cars!)
What is that supposed to mean? BMWCCA != BMW

Your best hope is that they'll make an exception for the 3 series since it's a hard top vert.
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      01-08-2009, 08:42 AM   #9
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We (www.MVPTrackTime.com) allow some convertibles without roll bars at tracks that allow it, but said convertibles must have the pop-up protection, a hard top or a note in the owners manual describing the front windshield frame as "rollover protection". The only two cars I know of with this note in the owners manual are the Honda S2000 and Porsche Boxster. Of course we highly recommend a roll bar!

This being noted, several tracks are restricting us on this and I think it's only a matter of time before all tracks mandate roll bars in all convertibles. Personally I think it's a good idea to have a roll bar in any convertible you plan to track.

Call me at (314) 249-3770 if you need clarification.

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      01-08-2009, 09:36 AM   #10
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Most DEs will allow verts with integrated hoops at the seat, look at the Boxster, S2000 and other sport verts and they have a hidden steel hoop around the back of each seat. I've seen cars flip on the track, you don't want to risk being pancaked like that, not to mention the instructor in the right seat.
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      01-08-2009, 09:46 AM   #11
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The BMWCCA does not allow convertibles of any kind (without specific modifications) due to insurance reasons. They had an incident a while back where an instructor was injured in a vert.
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      01-29-2009, 11:46 PM   #12
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I happened to run across that clip of the SL rolling and the roof coming off.

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      01-30-2009, 12:08 AM   #13
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heres a video to watch
http://www.youtube.com/v/croBCxHmQUc&hl=
Ouch!
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      01-30-2009, 05:23 PM   #14
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heres a video to watch
http://www.youtube.com/v/croBCxHmQUc&hl=
Ouch!
Why were people aplauding in that vid?
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      01-30-2009, 05:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I happened to run across that clip of the SL rolling and the roof coming off.

Looks like the dude was able to stumble away on the passenger side.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      01-31-2009, 01:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Looks like the dude was able to stumble away on the passenger side.
Thanks to the auto deploy roll bar in the SL. It's one of the coolest features of the car. It might look big and ugly, but it'll save your head when the car rolls.
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      01-31-2009, 02:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Thanks to the auto deploy roll bar in the SL. It's one of the coolest features of the car. It might look big and ugly, but it'll save your head when the car rolls.
Summit Point just changed its rules on convertibles, BUT they allow convertibles with the pop-up type systems.

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      02-02-2009, 02:18 PM   #18
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Nasa will let you attend HPDE1 with a Vert. There was a 911 with the top down running with me.
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      02-02-2009, 06:28 PM   #19
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Hardtop verts are only marginally safer than cloth tops, which is to say you would be nuts to go flat out on a track in a vert without a cage. Yes, its frustrating but it is unsafe any other way.
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      02-22-2009, 11:18 PM   #20
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I've run at Putnam and VIR with my E46 vert with the hard top installed. Had to run with the PCA since the BMW club will not allow verts. Its fun outrunning all of the 911's (except the highly modded or GT3's) and I have always been welcomed. Get in touch with the local PCA and see what they say. I have seen numerous 911 cabs running with open tops. Of course it is not as safe as a coupe, but don't see many roll overs. I debated getting a bolt in roll bar to pass the broom stick test but have now opted to go with a dedicated E36 M3 track car. Less worry on breakdowns and if the worse should happen and your insurance does not want to pay, you not out as much money. Good luck.
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