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      12-04-2008, 02:12 PM   #23
135i_TT
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Hmmm.. I wonder if people get better mileage then what BMW states... I know in my VW id get 45-55 mpg in my VW TDI and VW claimed 42mpg...
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      12-04-2008, 05:04 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
While I agree, the 335d does not seem to offer the most efficient diesel mileage offerings, I believe bmw is worried about being perceived as low-end if they offer 4 cylinder diesels. Thus they are offering the 335d to keep with their high end image here in the US. Catch is, if ya do the math like I just did, it does not pay off.

Also worth noting Nixon, The US gallon is = 3.78 liters, the British or Imperial gallon is = 4.55 liters, a 20% disparity. So using U.K. mileage figures is skewing the results making the cars appear more efficient.
I actually calculated (estimated) the US numbers for the diesels based upon the percent difference between posted 135i, 335d, and 335i numbers on the UK site, vs the US site. It's an estimate that should take into account both the difference in the size of the gallon, AND the differences between the EPA test and the EU's test (which are completely different).

BMW doesn't even have a US-spec 4-cyl diesel engine/exhaust for the US market to run through the EPA test at this point, so everything is just a guestimate anyways.


Regarding the 4-cyl, I once thought fear of another 4-cyl US market failure was the reason too. But then Scott26 started talking about a 240PS turbo 4 gas engine for the US market, and that excuse went down the tubes. I also once thought that just diesel fuel was the reason for not sending the 123d. Then they started shipping the 335d and that excuse went down the tubes too.

I also thought at one point that the reason was that 123d orders were so large in the rest of the world, and that waiting lists were already so long that BMW didn't want to interrupt their supply line in order to add the 123d to the US market. But then BMW sent their workers home for a week to reduce production numbers recently.

Now my latest thinking is that maybe BMW is doing so well with their Mini branding as highly fuel efficient that they don't want to dilute their Mini branding with an even more fuel efficient 123d? Just my pet theory for now, but I'm watching what they are doing with the Mini brand anyways.
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      12-18-2008, 05:29 PM   #25
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I'd think they wouldn't have to worry much about it if they simultaneously brought over the MINI diesel.
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      12-18-2008, 05:42 PM   #26
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IIRC the BMW diesels are built at the Steyr plant in Austria. Could it be that Steyr is maxed out or that BMW NA can't figure out how to market a 123d?

I'd strongly consider the 123d if it was offered.
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      12-19-2008, 05:35 PM   #27
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The 123D is fantastic...but still only 200HP. A 135 will always be the faster car.

The problem for diesels in the US is the price of fuel. Throughout Europe all fuel is taxed heavily. In some countries diesel is cheaper than gasoline...and you get better fuel consumption.

In the UK, our diesel fuel has dropped to approx $5.5 per US gallon ( from ~$7.50!), whilst gasoline is now approx $5 per US gall. We also get road tax benefits based on low fuel cons, and company car drivers get income tax benfits with low CO2 cars, like the 118D's.

I think the US market would like a diesel 1er, but it doesn't make sense with your gas prices. The infrastructure is also much better in Europe, with diesel pumps at gas stations only for cars, so they are undercover along side the gas pumps, and you don't have to stand in a pool of diesel and get covered in junk, while you fill up.
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      12-19-2008, 09:29 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB123d View Post

I think the US market would like a diesel 1er, but it doesn't make sense with your gas prices. The infrastructure is also much better in Europe, with diesel pumps at gas stations only for cars, so they are undercover along side the gas pumps, and you don't have to stand in a pool of diesel and get covered in junk, while you fill up.
I don't think that's correct. Even with prices the way they are right now, it is still cheaper, dollar per mile, to have a diesel engine than a gasser. (Assuming, that is, that a large premium isn't charged for the diesel-engined car in the first place.)

And I can't speak for the rest of the U.S., but in Pittsburgh, a lot of stations have diesel pumps right along with the rest of the regular gasoline pumps.
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      12-20-2008, 08:06 AM   #29
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I think than BMW should spend more time in finding ways to save mpg bc like ive stated before, the VW TDI Jetta goes- 42-55mpg and I would only visit the gas station twice a month sumtimes once.. so the Diesel price still wouldnt equal more then regular gas... but as I was reading above it was stated that the 123d is pushing 200hp? That may be one reason why its not saving much.. my TDI only had 100hp but a nice amt of torq and amazing handling. The new VW TDI's have 150hp and more torq. and still get the same or more mpg then my old TDI would.. so I wonder where BMW needs to improve....?
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      12-20-2008, 08:58 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i_TT View Post
I think than BMW should spend more time in finding ways to save mpg bc like ive stated before, the VW TDI Jetta goes- 42-55mpg and I would only visit the gas station twice a month sumtimes once.. so the Diesel price still wouldnt equal more then regular gas... but as I was reading above it was stated that the 123d is pushing 200hp? That may be one reason why its not saving much.. my TDI only had 100hp but a nice amt of torq and amazing handling. The new VW TDI's have 150hp and more torq. and still get the same or more mpg then my old TDI would.. so I wonder where BMW needs to improve....?
"Not saving much"? I think you're over-stating the case for the TDI Jetta versus the Jetta gasser.

According to the EPA numbers, the owner of an 6sp manual '09 TDI Jetta (30/41/34) would pay $1,067 in annual fuel costs versus $1,038 for the owner of a 5sp manual '09 regular gasoline base Jetta (21/30/24). The owner of a 5sp manual 2000 Jetta (35/44/38) would have annual fuel costs of $955. (Comparison done on fueleconomy.gov, assumes 15k miles per year, 45% highway driving, regular gasoline = $1.66/gal, diesel = $2.42/gal). So the price differential in diesel vs. gas does appear still to be in favor of diesel across-the-board, but only by a little.

Of course, no one can foretell the future, and I think we all know what's going to happen to fuel prices as soon as the recession is over.... If I had the choice, I'd get a 123d coupe in a heartbeat.
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