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      08-27-2006, 09:14 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by needforspeed
The ottoman empire was the height of the muslim civilisation and it was (for it's time) a relatively peaceful one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

Every single civilisation in the worlds history has been founded on war and has fought wars.

I don't think you could name a single civilisation or country which has lived pecefully with it's neighbours for a significant period.

For instance here is a list of wars fought by America:

http://www.historycentral.com/wars.html

The list of wars fought and countries annexed by the UK would be too long to print.

The bottom line is that the religion of Islam is a legitimate and peaceful one.

There are problems in the current world climate with various states and islamic groups which take a fundamentalist approach to their religion and culture. In doing so they clash with the west and destroy the human rights of their people. There is nothing wrong with fighting humans rights abuse no matter where it is found.

But there are hundreds of millions of Muslims on this planet who want to practice their faith and live in peace as part of a civilised forward thinking society.

Pawarrant / Bad Bob and CMD are not going to convince me that Islam is somehow bad.

Put simply I cannot concieve of how you are able to make such sweeping and unfounded generalisations about such a vast number of people.

Bad Bob for instance thinks his country is fighting a war against Islam.

President Bush says otherwise - he understands that the West cannot fight the 'war on terror' without the support of the wider Muslim people:

"The terrorists practice a fringe form of Islamic extremism that has been rejected by Muslim scholars and the vast majority of Muslim clerics -- a fringe movement that perverts the peaceful teachings of Islam. The terrorists' directive commands them to kill Christians and Jews, to kill all Americans, and make no distinction among military and civilians, including women and children."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0010920-8.html

What amazes me is that you guys are the ones that call me naive.

But a religion is what its believers say it is. In any age the nature and substance of any religion is defined by those who are most strident and assertive in saying what it is. And in this age it is the Islamic Resistance Movement, the voices of Puritanical Islam, the Islam of Jihad against the Unbelievers and Infidels, all the Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, the Liberal Democracies, and all the others, that define Islam for the world. Perhaps one day the silent and invisible majority of non-militant Muslims will become an outspoken and visible majority, and then the dialectic of Islam will change, the voice of Islam to the world will change, and Islam will become what it should be: a great religion. A religion of peace.
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      08-27-2006, 10:58 AM   #134
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Some links to an Islamic site, which discuss their views on terrorism:

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-11.htm

http://www.islam-guide.com/more/#Islam-on-Terrorism
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      08-27-2006, 12:36 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by needforspeed
I don't think you could name a single civilisation or country which has lived pecefully with it's neighbours for a significant period.
As BadBob mentioned, and is so obvious I'm surprised you even asked the question, Canada and the United States.

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
The bottom line is that the religion of Islam is a legitimate and peaceful one.
Legitimate? Arguably. Peaceful? Hardly. In fact, Islam has been at war with the West, with Christianity, with Judaism indeed, with the entire non-Muslim world ever since the days of Muhammad. This struggle, more than any other, has defined history for the last 1,200 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
But there are hundreds of millions of Muslims on this planet who want to practice their faith and live in peace as part of a civilised forward thinking society.
Possibly true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
Pawarrant / Bad Bob and CMD are not going to convince me that Islam is somehow bad.
No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
Put simply I cannot concieve of how you are able to make such sweeping and unfounded generalisations about such a vast number of people.
You continue to refer to how large the Islamic religion is. I've asked you before how this matters. It only make them an even larger threat to western civilization. Let me ask you, is there a difference between 1 million people that have a wrong belief, and 2 billion people that have a wrong belief?

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
Bad Bob for instance thinks his country is fighting a war against Islam.
Bob is absolutely correct. See: Are We at War with Islam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
President Bush says otherwise - he understands that the West cannot fight the 'war on terror' without the support of the wider Muslim people:
I would argue that if President Bush was not castrated by Political Correctness, his song would be far closer to, if not exactly like, Mr. Kraft's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
What amazes me is that you guys are the ones that call me naive.
I think I'm the only one that has called you naive.
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      08-27-2006, 12:53 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by BadBob
It's beyond me why you, a person of Celtic blood, would defend Islam. Is your wife Islamic? Are your in-laws Islamic? Have you or your wife been a target of racism or prejudice? Have your grandmothers disowned you? Whats the deal?
I've been wondering the same thing myself ever since this exchange began.

I think he stated when this started that his wife is Muslim(?) That could explain it.
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      08-27-2006, 01:00 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by needforspeed
Some links to an Islamic site, which discuss their views on terrorism:

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-11.htm

http://www.islam-guide.com/more/#Islam-on-Terrorism
Actions speak louder than words.
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      08-27-2006, 01:11 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by whippersnapper
lame dude
Struck a nerve, eh?
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      08-27-2006, 01:53 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
The bottom line is that the religion of Islam is a legitimate and peaceful one.
You may be correct, but what is with all the hatred being spewed in Mosques across the world towards non-Muslims? How many Christian churches spew hatred towards other religions during Sunday mass? I challenge you to name one.
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      08-27-2006, 01:59 PM   #140
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Another question for the practitioners of the religion of peace...Why are America's most violent criminals converting to Islam at an alarming rate in our prisons? Violent criminals are converting to Islam faster than any other religion in the US prison system. Again, I'm not generalizing as NFS thinks. I've never said all Muslims in any of my posts, and repeatedly have to say I do not believe all Muslims are bad. It does seem a lot of non-peaceful people are flocking to the religion of peace.
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      08-27-2006, 02:07 PM   #141
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Another interesting thing is that the 2 Fox reporters who were released today by Islamic terrorists were forced at gunpoint to convert to Islam. Does anyone think we are forcing anyone at Gitmo to convert to Christianity? Even though we may not be fighting a religious war, they sure are. If it was about social-economic conditions, why force their captives to convert to Islam?
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