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      11-08-2008, 03:41 PM   #1
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Track tires - what were your experiences?

I did a search recently on E9x M3 track tires on this board and I found a few different types in use. The longest reviews were really about the car itself and not about tires, but the tires got considerable comment as well.

I got to wondering how everybody that used them felt about them now that we're in the inter-season gap. That's the time when we figure out what the plan for next year will be - will I do the 2008 plan again or will I change to something else that should work better?

Personally, I'm in the second group - I want something better next year.

I ended up with a square set of Bridgestone RE-01R's in 265/35x18 on a set of 18x9.5" ET25 rims. They were brilliant for the first 5 laps or so then they got greasy, even with a lot of messing with tire pressures. The M3 is just too heavy and powerful for them, or maybe they're a great autocross tire but not a road-track success. Don't get me wrong - they kept me in the pack every time out, but they were a lot if work to drive.

I know a couple of you guys were very happy with your BFG R1's and I saw one comment about Toyo R888's as well. Are you guys still happy now that the season is a memory, your tires are shot, and next year's out there with the option of choosing over again? For instance, does anyone have experience with the Michelin PS Cups that were made for the car? Very pricey and a good reputation, but did anyone on this board actually use them? How was it?

My working theory for next year will be 275/35x18 BFG R1's (square) on 9.5"x18ET25 rims.

Would anyone suggest I'm heading in the wrong direction?
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      11-08-2008, 06:06 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
For instance, does anyone have experience with the Michelin PS Cups that were made for the car? Very pricey and a good reputation, but did anyone on this board actually use them? How was it?
Yes, I mounted PSCs on the stock 19" wheels for my last track even for the year, which was an intensive driving school, which means that we did 1x30min and 3x45min session on one day. My brief write-up is here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180371

To summarize, PSCs last considerably longer than the PS2s in terms of not getting greasy. It would take only about 10-12 minutes of hard driving for PS2s to get all soft. PSCs pretty much lasted 30 mins or so, but got somewhat greasy after that as well. Also, I was a little under a second faster I think, but it is hard to say exactly. You definitely feel them biting harder on slow speed tight corners.

I was actually looking for a set of 18" wheels with the proper offsets that I could mount R compound tires on, and could not find any except for what Turner had, which was way too expensive. My search back then was documented here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176589

I will most likely start out with the PSCs next season, and once we have some good 18" wheel alternatives for the E9X M3, switch to a track setup then.

I am not sure if I should go with 18x9.5 with 275/35, or 18x10 with 275/35 or 285/30 all around. The turner car had 18x10 with 275/35 had all around. I think 25mm offset should clear in either case, but I'd like to know for sure.
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      11-09-2008, 12:49 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I am not sure if I should go with 18x9.5 with 275/35, or 18x10 with 275/35 or 285/30 all around. The turner car had 18x10 with 275/35 had all around. I think 25mm offset should clear in either case, but I'd like to know for sure.
Thanks for replying!

I have a set of 9.5x18's already so I'm going to work with them first. The 275 tires should fit ok - the RE01R's in 265/35 have the same section-width as 275/35's do (10.7"), just a narrower tread. The RE01R's fit with lots of room to spare so I think the 275's will be ok too. On the tracks I go to, the front tires get beat up the most - the car's balanced with a square setup so I'm staying with it.

From the measurements I've done, 25mm offset rims are about perfect for the E9x M3 chassis both front and rear.

Tire rack has the TR Motorsports MT1 rims in 10"x18 ET25 for a reasonable price - it's what I'd get if I didn't already have the 9.5's.
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      11-09-2008, 01:57 AM   #4
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I have been running the BFG R1's 265 front and 285 back with great success - after I got the camber on the stock suspension set to -1.54 front and - 1.2 something in the back there was absolutely no understeer anymore. So if I assume that a square setup would turn the car into an oversteer machine with a pretty loose back...at least with my camber settings.

I have done 10+ track days on the R1s and I am very happy with them
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      11-09-2008, 10:52 AM   #5
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I have only done 2 trackdays this year in and the E92.I used the Toyo R888's in 255/35-18 on 8.5 up front & 265/35 -18 on 9.5 on the rear.They are a easy to drive tire that you can bring back in very easily once you go over the edge but I did not think the grip level was very high compared to the Hoosier R6's and Kuhmo 710's that I have run on previous cars.You cound get about 5 minutes of hard running before the tires would fall off about 1-2 seconds a lap.I am not sure that the wear will be any better on these than the previous 2 Ultra performance track tires.The car was also quite loose with this setup and did not put down the power very well exiting from 2nd gear corners but at least that was fun
I also did a sopping wet day on my stock 19" PS2's and I was blown away at how well these tires worked.Virtually no aquaplaning and wonderful feedback which made it very easy to go quite quick.The stock setup gave fairly good balance alternating between light understeer and oversteer while trail braking and with throttle application.The real interesting thing is that the tires wore quite a bit in 3 sessions on a totally soacked track.Quite impressed!
I think that for next year I will be going with a larger setup F&R,but that depends on the sizing that is available here in Canada.From what I have seen I do not think a "square" setup would be the way to go with how neutral the car is with the staggered setup that I have run this year.I run with all the electronic nannies off all the time on track and I am quite aggresive so maybe my needs are quite different than other peoples.
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      11-09-2008, 11:19 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I think that for next year I will be going with a larger setup F&R,but that depends on the sizing that is available here in Canada.From what I have seen I do not think a "square" setup would be the way to go with how neutral the car is with the staggered setup that I have run this year.
If you could get the exact rim and tire sizes you would like, what would those be for F&R?
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      11-09-2008, 12:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
If you could get the exact rim and tire sizes you would like, what would those be for F&R?
I would like to run at least a 265 on a 9.5 -10 on the front with a 275 on a 1.5-11.Compared to my C5 Z06 on 305's on 11's all the way round my M3 is quite undertired for real aggresive laps with the power that is available now.I still might try to sell my track bike and get a dedicated lapping car but I have a little time to decide as this winter thing gives me time to think this all through.
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      11-09-2008, 12:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I would like to run at least a 265 on a 9.5 -10 on the front with a 275 on a 1.5-11.
Thanks for your opinion. So, you are thinking about 265 on the fronts and 275 on the rears. How would you characterize the effects of the 0.5" width difference on any given rim? I am asking because currently there are 9.5" rims for the front and 10" rims for the rear with the right offsets respectively one can buy, but I am not sure about a 10"F/10.5"R setup.
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      11-09-2008, 12:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Thanks for your opinion. So, you are thinking about 265 on the fronts and 275 on the rears. How would you characterize the effects of the 0.5" width difference on any given rim? I am asking because currently there are 9.5" rims for the front and 10" rims for the rear with the right offsets respectively one can buy, but I am not sure about a 10"F/10.5"R setup.
A wider rim is always better for a given section width of tire.If you can the tell the difference on a street based track car,who knows for sure.I have always tried to go with the max width recommended for the tire size used.

Here is a pic of my old 5. Mustang with 245/45-17's on 9's or 9.5's back in 1987.
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      11-09-2008, 02:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfbimmer13 View Post
I have been running the BFG R1's 265 front and 285 back with great success - after I got the camber on the stock suspension set to -1.54 front and - 1.2 something in the back there was absolutely no understeer anymore. So if I assume that a square setup would turn the car into an oversteer machine with a pretty loose back...at least with my camber settings.

I have done 10+ track days on the R1s and I am very happy with them
I didn't realize that camber was adjustable on these cars - that's great! Based on your August posts you're running these on 18x10 TR Motorsports rims, right?

So far BFG R1's are the tires getting the most positive response. Has anyone got experience with Nitto NT-01's or Hoosiers on the E9x M3?
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      11-09-2008, 04:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
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I didn't realize that camber was adjustable on these cars - that's great! Based on your August posts you're running these on 18x10 TR Motorsports rims, right?
18x10 rear and 18x9 front TR1 Motorsports - In August I was still running 18x8.5 with the 265s, that however turned out to be too small for the tire so I upgraded to 18x9s (that was the only size Tirerack had available)
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      11-09-2008, 11:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
A wider rim is always better for a given section width of tire.If you can the tell the difference on a street based track car,who knows for sure.I have always tried to go with the max width recommended for the tire size used.
[/IMG]
I assume the benefit is due to less lateral tire wall deflection on the wider rims when cornering?
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      11-09-2008, 11:29 PM   #13
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I assume the benefit is due to less lateral tire wall deflection on the wider rims when cornering?
That has been my thinking and more life because the tread is more stable under high cornering loads.But this is also assuming that your alignment is dialed in properly.
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      11-10-2008, 02:47 AM   #14
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BFG R1's rule. 265 all around if you want to be able to rotate. or for the supremem grip use 265 front and 275 rear.
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      11-10-2008, 09:10 AM   #15
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The one think that I do like about the Hoosiers is that you can flip them on the rims to maximize the life.This is quite important on street driven cars that are limited in the camber that you can run.The Hoosiers are quickest in the 1st heat cycle and fall off but then stay quite consistant till they are corded.They are very light tire and should only be used on a car with working ABS as they do cord very quickly when locked up(ask me how i know).
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      11-10-2008, 11:29 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
The one think that I do like about the Hoosiers is that you can flip them on the rims to maximize the life.This is quite important on street driven cars that are limited in the camber that you can run.The Hoosiers are quickest in the 1st heat cycle and fall off but then stay quite consistant till they are corded.They are very light tire and should only be used on a car with working ABS as they do cord very quickly when locked up(ask me how i know).
I forgot about flipping them. That makes a ton of sense. Is this possible with the BFGs? Certainly not with the PS2s.
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      11-10-2008, 11:40 AM   #17
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I forgot about flipping them. That makes a ton of sense. Is this possible with the BFGs? Certainly not with the PS2s.

You can flip them if they are a symetrical tire.We have done that for years for lapping & screwing around on.It sure helps to reduce the tire bills!I used to be able to buy the Hoosiers as take off from Grand Am cup teams and most of the time they only had 1 heat cycle on them and many times they still had the molding lines on them.When every bit of time counts for the Pro's,running the tires past one heat cycle is not an option on a race weekend.Lapping is another story however.
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      11-12-2008, 07:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I forgot about flipping them. That makes a ton of sense. Is this possible with the BFGs? Certainly not with the PS2s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
You can flip them if they are a symetrical tire.We have done that for years for lapping & screwing around on.It sure helps to reduce the tire bills!I used to be able to buy the Hoosiers as take off from Grand Am cup teams and most of the time they only had 1 heat cycle on them and many times they still had the molding lines on them.When every bit of time counts for the Pro's,running the tires past one heat cycle is not an option on a race weekend.Lapping is another story however.

you can flip the BFG's I have actually done it once already - the older R1's used to be asymmetrical, but the current ones are symmetrical
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      11-12-2008, 08:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
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you can flip the BFG's I have actually done it once already - the older R1's used to be asymmetrical, but the current ones are symmetrical
Good to know. Thanks.
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      11-14-2008, 07:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
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you can flip the BFG's I have actually done it once already - the older R1's used to be asymmetrical, but the current ones are symmetrical
true - another reason I went with the bFG
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      11-30-2008, 01:59 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Yes, I mounted PSCs on the stock 19" wheels for my last track even for the year, which was an intensive driving school, which means that we did 1x30min and 3x45min session on one day. My brief write-up is here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180371

To summarize, PSCs last considerably longer than the PS2s in terms of not getting greasy. It would take only about 10-12 minutes of hard driving for PS2s to get all soft. PSCs pretty much lasted 30 mins or so, but got somewhat greasy after that as well. Also, I was a little under a second faster I think, but it is hard to say exactly. You definitely feel them biting harder on slow speed tight corners.

I was actually looking for a set of 18" wheels with the proper offsets that I could mount R compound tires on, and could not find any except for what Turner had, which was way too expensive. My search back then was documented here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176589

I will most likely start out with the PSCs next season, and once we have some good 18" wheel alternatives for the E9X M3, switch to a track setup then.

I am not sure if I should go with 18x9.5 with 275/35, or 18x10 with 275/35 or 285/30 all around. The turner car had 18x10 with 275/35 had all around. I think 25mm offset should clear in either case, but I'd like to know for sure.
Lucid, I checked your other posts and didn't see - Did you go with PSC+ or straight PSC? If you went straight PSC, what sizes did you get?
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      01-17-2009, 10:12 AM   #22
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bump, curious to know what 19" sizes to use for PSC
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