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      12-25-2008, 07:09 PM   #1
msile
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Help! Cant stop modding. Just installed AFE filter.

The hardest part was getting all the screws off the air box. I purchased the afe oiled filter. The fitment was perfect. It is quite snug in there, yet when I took it for a drive, under full throttle, it sounds loose. There is definitely a nice growl as well under WOT. Next.....the AFE scoops.



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      12-25-2008, 07:14 PM   #2
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[quote=msile;3853744]The hardest part was getting all the screws off the air box. I purchased the afe oiled filter. The fitment was perfect. It is quite snug in there, yet when I took it for a drive, under full throttle, it sounds loose. There is definitely a nice growl as well under WOT. Next.....the AFE scoops.

Do you mean the filter sounds loose as in loose fit when WOT? As if something is loose? Please explain? I'm interested in getting this filter as well. How's the seat-dyno feel also?
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      12-25-2008, 07:31 PM   #3
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[quote=BimmerRob08;3853764]
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Originally Posted by msile View Post
The hardest part was getting all the screws off the air box. I purchased the afe oiled filter. The fitment was perfect. It is quite snug in there, yet when I took it for a drive, under full throttle, it sounds loose. There is definitely a nice growl as well under WOT. Next.....the AFE scoops.

Do you mean the filter sounds loose as in loose fit when WOT? As if something is loose? Please explain? I'm interested in getting this filter as well. How's the seat-dyno feel also?
I think that the sound can be described as a flutter. I am quite anal about things, so I opened it up again and checked the fitment but it is snug in there with no gaps. Some people have experienced a rattle which I do not have. The throttle response seems better. I am not able to detect any power gain. The ecu will also have to adapt.
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      12-25-2008, 07:34 PM   #4
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Has anyone dyno's any signifcant gains with this?
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      12-25-2008, 07:45 PM   #5
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cool, your not getting any engine check lights or power lag from the fitment, right? How's the ECU have to adapt?
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      12-25-2008, 07:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Has anyone dyno's any signifcant gains with this?
Maybe 5 to 10 hp.... not because the afe filters are that good, but because the stock ones seem so restrictive with the inclusion of the charcoal element.

Here is more info...

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ghlight=filter

Here is one with filter and exhaust:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ghlight=filter
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      12-25-2008, 08:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerRob08 View Post
cool, your not getting any engine check lights or power lag from the fitment, right? How's the ECU have to adapt?
No problems at all.

From ZeroG from another forum:

The ECU has a set fuel map or look up table for closed loop operation. It also has one for open loop operation. The ECU stores to trims STFT (Short Term Fuel Trim), and LTFT (Long Term Fuel Trim).

Basically it uses the feedback of the multiple O2 sensors in the exhaust track to try and maintain 14.7:1 AFR or Stoich. So the if the car is running either rich or lean it will send an offset or trim to the cars fuel map to get the car closer to 14.7. When reading the trims with an OBD Scan tool the car wants to be at 1.00 anything positive means that the ECU is adding fuel anything negative means the ECU is subtracting fuel. You want the car as close to 1.00 as possible meaning that there are no trims.

For example you are cruising down the highway and today it is abnormally cold and the car is running rich. The ECU will add an offset in the STFT (Short Term) to subtract some fuel and make the car 14.7. If lets say you actually moved to Alaska where it is cold all the time, the STFT will eventually become and LTFT and will finally replace a value in the fuel look up table with a new one. So in the long run the car is always learning and there is no way to just erase the fuel memory and start over. You can disconnect the battery cables for a period of time to wipe out the trims, but if a value has been replaced in the table then that is that. It will not change until the ECU thinks that is has found a better value for that cell in the table.

So what does that mean to you?

Well if you're just cruising around town nothing. It is at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) where the effect is most seen. So if you have say added larger fuel injectors. Without reprogramming the ECU the car will trim out the excess fuel that is being received by the injectors. So when you go WOT, and the car is no longer running in closed loop the trims still apply and the appropriate amount of fuel will be removed across the powerband.

I really hope that made some sense...

As far as knock and timing go to my knowledge they are not effected by fuel trimming they are basically determined by the amount of load placed on the engine. Under low load conditions timing can be advanced under high low it can be retarded. You can kind of manipulate the timing using a piggyback MAF scaler if you want to go down that route. Knock sensors are a safety mechanism as they sense knock and respond drastically not by retarding one or two degrees, but more like 20 just to be safe.
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      12-25-2008, 08:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msile View Post
No problems at all.

From ZeroG from another forum:

The ECU has a set fuel map or look up table for closed loop operation. It also has one for open loop operation. The ECU stores to trims STFT (Short Term Fuel Trim), and LTFT (Long Term Fuel Trim).

Basically it uses the feedback of the multiple O2 sensors in the exhaust track to try and maintain 14.7:1 AFR or Stoich. So the if the car is running either rich or lean it will send an offset or trim to the cars fuel map to get the car closer to 14.7. When reading the trims with an OBD Scan tool the car wants to be at 1.00 anything positive means that the ECU is adding fuel anything negative means the ECU is subtracting fuel. You want the car as close to 1.00 as possible meaning that there are no trims.

For example you are cruising down the highway and today it is abnormally cold and the car is running rich. The ECU will add an offset in the STFT (Short Term) to subtract some fuel and make the car 14.7. If lets say you actually moved to Alaska where it is cold all the time, the STFT will eventually become and LTFT and will finally replace a value in the fuel look up table with a new one. So in the long run the car is always learning and there is no way to just erase the fuel memory and start over. You can disconnect the battery cables for a period of time to wipe out the trims, but if a value has been replaced in the table then that is that. It will not change until the ECU thinks that is has found a better value for that cell in the table.

So what does that mean to you?

Well if you're just cruising around town nothing. It is at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) where the effect is most seen. So if you have say added larger fuel injectors. Without reprogramming the ECU the car will trim out the excess fuel that is being received by the injectors. So when you go WOT, and the car is no longer running in closed loop the trims still apply and the appropriate amount of fuel will be removed across the powerband.

I really hope that made some sense...

As far as knock and timing go to my knowledge they are not effected by fuel trimming they are basically determined by the amount of load placed on the engine. Under low load conditions timing can be advanced under high low it can be retarded. You can kind of manipulate the timing using a piggyback MAF scaler if you want to go down that route. Knock sensors are a safety mechanism as they sense knock and respond drastically not by retarding one or two degrees, but more like 20 just to be safe.
I dont know who you are but thanks! I have been trying to find out if you can reprogram the ecu to a target A/f, with the addition of using a MAF scaler to adjust timing.. Humm??
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      12-25-2008, 08:29 PM   #9
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Do you really feel a difference?I did it on a couple of porches and I wasn't quite convinced
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      12-25-2008, 08:31 PM   #10
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Do you really feel a difference?I did it on a couple of porches and I wasn't quite convinced
No there is no difference it just noise and "maybe" a bit better gas mileage on the HWY if that applies to you..
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      12-25-2008, 08:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagletangogreen View Post
No there is no difference it just noise and "maybe" a bit better gas mileage on the HWY if that applies to you..
Yup, no difference felt (yet). Just psychological because of the noise. I am also going after the collective effect. Filter, scoop, high flow cat, exhaust and flash.
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      12-25-2008, 08:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagletangogreen View Post
I dont know who you are but thanks! I have been trying to find out if you can reprogram the ecu to a target A/f, with the addition of using a MAF scaler to adjust timing.. Humm??
I am assuming that the Scaler is a MAF based ECU to be used without a MAF sensor by generating a simulated MAF voltage based on inputs from RPM, MAP and TPS...if so, do you not need a piggy back ECU in conjunction with the stock ECU?
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      12-25-2008, 09:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msile View Post
I am assuming that the Scaler is a MAF based ECU to be used without a MAF sensor by generating a simulated MAF voltage based on inputs from RPM, MAP and TPS...if so, do you not need a piggy back ECU in conjunction with the stock ECU?
Yes you would, the stock ecu would control all other functions, the piggy back would control the fuel and timing tables... Question is whos sell a piggy back system? Form what I have been told and read the BMW software cannot be adjusted like how everyone in the world does.. I am about to give up on this car as far as tunning it, and leave it as it is..
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      12-26-2008, 01:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagletangogreen View Post
Yes you would, the stock ecu would control all other functions, the piggy back would control the fuel and timing tables... Question is whos sell a piggy back system? Form what I have been told and read the BMW software cannot be adjusted like how everyone in the world does.. I am about to give up on this car as far as tunning it, and leave it as it is..
I do not think that there is anyone yet. I talked to the local AEM rep and he did not seem to be too enthusiastic. Only option so far is the static flashes provided by some vendors.
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