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      12-19-2008, 11:40 PM   #133
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I have driven a Mustang with a Procharger D1. It was a lot of fun. The car had a built 4.6 SOHC motor that with ported heads, cams, etc. It could be revved to be about 7200rpm.

Centrifugal superchargers on high revving V8s are a lot of fun. A roots or twin screw blower on an 8400rpm V8 would be a mistake. very linear power curve, not the huge spike of a turbo.
How is that? top fuel dragster use roots style superchargers and those rev to almost 10000 rpms. They make crazy power. A twin screw style supercharger is the best of both worlds. Crazy torque like a traditional roots and power all the way to redline with a linear curve.
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      12-20-2008, 03:47 PM   #134
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I don't get these crazy prices (although est.) for these blower systems. Yes, I understand R&D and fabrication, but I've installed a bower system on my '93 Lightning, and a turbo kit on my '03 Mach 1...the cost of both of those kits were less that $5K. $15K for a kit, or even $10K for a kit is crazy IMO...other than a huge mark-up due to it being a BMW....just my .02.

A great way to keep the cost down and also ease the install would be going with ProCharger P1 head unit or a Powerdyne. At the low boost levels with a high compression motor those two head units would prove quite reliable. Without needing to punch a hole in the oil pan the install would be a few brackets, tubing and tune...not a bad deal. I'm sure with 5-6 psi you'd see 75-100 rwhp which would make the car a monster...and I'd get an 11 sec ride back!
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      12-20-2008, 07:31 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaross305 View Post
How is that? top fuel dragster use roots style superchargers and those rev to almost 10000 rpms. They make crazy power. A twin screw style supercharger is the best of both worlds. Crazy torque like a traditional roots and power all the way to redline with a linear curve.
With a screw/roots blower on a small, high revving motor like the M3's I think you'd find you'd either end up with a lifeless bottom end of the curve in order to move enough air on the top end or vice-versa.
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      12-20-2008, 07:33 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by AbaundvrM3 View Post
I don't get these crazy prices (although est.) for these blower systems. Yes, I understand R&D and fabrication, but I've installed a bower system on my '93 Lightning, and a turbo kit on my '03 Mach 1...the cost of both of those kits were less that $5K. $15K for a kit, or even $10K for a kit is crazy IMO...other than a huge mark-up due to it being a BMW....just my .02.

A great way to keep the cost down and also ease the install would be going with ProCharger P1 head unit or a Powerdyne. At the low boost levels with a high compression motor those two head units would prove quite reliable. Without needing to punch a hole in the oil pan the install would be a few brackets, tubing and tune...not a bad deal. I'm sure with 5-6 psi you'd see 75-100 rwhp which would make the car a monster...and I'd get an 11 sec ride back!
Don't forget the additional cost of the software, fuel system upgrades, complete intake manifold replacement, and limited production volume vs. a Mustang kit when estimating a price, though. A typical Mustang kit doesn't include injectors, sometimes it includes a fuel pump, no intake manifold, etc.
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      12-20-2008, 09:05 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbaundvrM3 View Post
I don't get these crazy prices (although est.) for these blower systems. Yes, I understand R&D and fabrication, but I've installed a bower system on my '93 Lightning, and a turbo kit on my '03 Mach 1...the cost of both of those kits were less that $5K. $15K for a kit, or even $10K for a kit is crazy IMO...other than a huge mark-up due to it being a BMW....just my .02.

A great way to keep the cost down and also ease the install would be going with ProCharger P1 head unit or a Powerdyne. At the low boost levels with a high compression motor those two head units would prove quite reliable. Without needing to punch a hole in the oil pan the install would be a few brackets, tubing and tune...not a bad deal. I'm sure with 5-6 psi you'd see 75-100 rwhp which would make the car a monster...and I'd get an 11 sec ride back!
It isn't the parts themselves, its the tuning. No offense, but with the Ford supercharged cars you could go to home depot and get parts to make the cars faster. They are not exactly as sophisticated in the tuning and the Lightning is supercharged from the factory. Big difference...
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      12-21-2008, 02:06 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
Don't forget the additional cost of the software, fuel system upgrades, complete intake manifold replacement, and limited production volume vs. a Mustang kit when estimating a price, though. A typical Mustang kit doesn't include injectors, sometimes it includes a fuel pump, no intake manifold, etc.
Your correct in that the kit had no intake manifold and dyno tuning, but other than that the kits had everything to include the ty wraps needed for an OEM looking install. Again, those ran for well below $5K. I'm still not convinced that a kit sohould run $10K. There are kits out there (turbo) for teh Cobras and they do include an intake manifold do to the removal of the Eaton supercharger...these kits are still reasonably priced considering the MONSTER power those twin turbo cars make.

The 93 Lightning was not supercharged from the factory. The original 93's had a 5.8L speed density motor with a nice 240 hp...and crappy internals.

Tuning wise, I had my turbo car tuned at RWTD in Mobile, Alabama and with 12 hrs on the dyno tuning the car cost around $600...I wouldn't use a run of the mill chip in my car IMO, there's too many variables especially with a turbo car. The supercharged cars are much easier to nail a tune down from what I've seen. I would agree that Mustangs ract well to any mods...I just can't take the squirrels that drive them cars any longer
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      12-21-2008, 04:34 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbaundvrM3 View Post
Your correct in that the kit had no intake manifold and dyno tuning, but other than that the kits had everything to include the ty wraps needed for an OEM looking install. Again, those ran for well below $5K. I'm still not convinced that a kit sohould run $10K. There are kits out there (turbo) for teh Cobras and they do include an intake manifold do to the removal of the Eaton supercharger...these kits are still reasonably priced considering the MONSTER power those twin turbo cars make.

The 93 Lightning was not supercharged from the factory. The original 93's had a 5.8L speed density motor with a nice 240 hp...and crappy internals.

Tuning wise, I had my turbo car tuned at RWTD in Mobile, Alabama and with 12 hrs on the dyno tuning the car cost around $600...I wouldn't use a run of the mill chip in my car IMO, there's too many variables especially with a turbo car. The supercharged cars are much easier to nail a tune down from what I've seen. I would agree that Mustangs ract well to any mods...I just can't take the squirrels that drive them cars any longer
I'll tell you right now whoever tuned your car/truck/whatever your had for 12 hrs and only charged you $600 is or has gone bankrupt if thats how he ran business. Tuning as I have come to find out on these cars is very Expensive. For just a normal N/A Flash from from a reputable Tuner it'll run you AROUND $1000, not to mention a CUSTOM FI Tune which you would need a few hours on the Dyno for. They also only produced about 50 million kits for mustangs/lightnings and prob not even 100 kits combined the first year or 2 for an M3. Just my .02
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      12-24-2008, 08:17 AM   #140
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I'll tell you right now whoever tuned your car/truck/whatever your had for 12 hrs and only charged you $600 is or has gone bankrupt if thats how he ran business.
Well, I can't argue with you (nor is that my intent) there because after typing in RWTD's website I got no response. However James did use SCT tuning and had a nice facility and dyno. IMO it was more of a hobby for him and yes, did run the business that way. Even at $1K for tuning $15K for a kit is insane...that was my point.


At any rate here's a few pics of the orginal 10:1 compression motor that made too much power (502 RWHP) for the crappy piston...ripped it in half (which was the orginal motor in my '03 Mach...fyi, the orginal motor didn't grenade from a tune by RWTD).

The M3 has forged internals right...I wouldn't consider a power adder unless it is.
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Last edited by AbaundvrM3; 12-24-2008 at 08:21 AM. Reason: more info to assured a stupid comment wasn't added
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      12-24-2008, 10:50 AM   #141
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Yep, that is what may happen if too much air and fuel are forced into the piston. Forged interior is not the only problem, it is also the fuel octane rating to prevent premature ignition. A particular issue of high compression engines and one of the major reasons one canīt run boost above .32 to .35 BAR w/o changing the internals to lower compression.
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