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      11-26-2008, 06:34 PM   #23
mkoesel
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If true this is pretty disappointing. But its not like we didn't see it coming. The writing has been on the wall for some time now.

To me, though, the most disappointing thing is not necessarily that future M engines will employ turbo chargers, or even that the high performance X6 (apparently anyway, according to this article) really will be an M model and not an "si". No, the most disappointing thing is that they are (apparently) just pulling the non-M N64 V8 off the shelf and applying more boost. I'm sure there will be other tweaks, but the engine itself will not be uniquely M. I was hoping that, if (when) M decided to start using forced induction, they would design their own engines (or start with the current S65/S85 as a basis) focusing specifically on retaining the M character. The aftermarket has been able to turbocharge past and current M motors without necessarily lowering compression or lowering redline. So presumably, with some R&D this could be done to a factory motor also. Maybe only the X6 (and X5) M models will get a non-M derived motor. I know the article claims otherwise, but hopefully this turns out not to be the case. I do understand that sharing parts with the non-M brothers helps keep costs down. But the penalty is likely to be an experience that is less true to traditional M ideals. It is also notable that AMG appears to be headed in the opposite direction as far as this issue goes, the 6.2L V8 was their first built-from-the-ground-up engine, and they will apparently continue to use it going forward.

On another note, this is the first I'd heard that the X6 M would be getting 500hp. Perviously, reports were that it would be somewhat less. So at least they are serious about matching the competition in power I suppose. Not that I'd ever buy an SUV anyway.

I suppose we can celebrate the fact that we will have the last of a breed, and perhaps the only M3 ever to get a V8 (at least for the forseeable future) since it seems unlikely they'd give the M3 the same motor as the M5. Although, its possible the M3 could use a smaller displacement version or just have less boost. Personally, if BMW goes this route, there will be a lot more to take into consideration when choosing my next car. Of course by then who knows what the automotive landscape will look like.
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      11-26-2008, 06:36 PM   #24
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I don't mind turbo or NA.

With direct injection and high compression ratio, the new turbo system should be very responsive and lag-less.
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      11-26-2008, 06:39 PM   #25
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Merc are also talking about turboing there 6.2 V8 as well!
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      11-26-2008, 06:54 PM   #26
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well, how many of us saw it that BMW will fit TT in a 3 series. No one did. But BMW did accomplish that. Many loved it, yet few hated it; calling BMW's approach as "not typica" or "nontranditional". No one can see that day when BMW will offer TT in an M3. But they will.
I had that discussion with one of my good friends; whom I need to remind is a very much Audi enthusiast. The argument was evolving around a Saab 95 that he had purchased for his wife (not by choice). He was boasting about the technology that Saab uses on their 4 cylinder motor to produce so much power, and yet maintain clean fuel emission. I stated to him that the day is coming when most manufacturers will result in using turbos to gain more easier power, yet not sacrificing fuel efficient. He disagreed with me, stating the other wise. That was 6 years ago. I think I win one.
But in all honesty, after test driving an E9X M3, this car is very much alive, and ready to kick ass. I don't know why would someone buy a TT M3. Is it the power? Is it the sheer performance? or is it "hey look at me, I am driving an TT M3"?
I am holding my peace 'til the car is in production.
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      11-26-2008, 06:54 PM   #27
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I wonder if our cars will go up in value...

but its sad to see "M" trucks, i wish BMW would stick to their heritage and not be conformists.
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      11-26-2008, 07:11 PM   #28
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Those of us in Denver with 20% less HP at 5280 ft are interested in forced induction. Honestly after test driving a 335xi and an M3 there's no comparison. I'll be ordering a 2009 M3 Sedan....
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      11-26-2008, 07:15 PM   #29
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I have to agree with one poster who said that holding on to our E9x M3's will be like holding on to a 993 Porsche (last of the air cooled cars). They will probably hold a slightly higher value in the hearts of M enthusiasts. But let's face is guys, our cars are not exotics that will fetch premium dollar in the future. They're just top end 3 series based cars (gonna get some slack from that last comment!). Yes, I know that the motor is designed and built by M division but they're still not rare exotics!

When the 911 went liquid cooled, the enthusiasts caused a stir and made fusses but still they went out and bought them anyways. Same thing with the current M3. The V8 motor caused stir yet most E46 owners traded up their cars for the E9x anyways!

Technology and cars are always getting bigger and better and I'd be willing to say that once the new car comes out with more power, better handling and lighter components, most E9x owners will throw a fit only to eventually trade up their cars for the next model.

I say; Go with the times! If the next move is a turbo charged V8, then bring it on. I don't know if I will buy the next M3 as by then I'll want something larger and maybe more practical (all-weather performance with year round usability.. Toronto winters suck!!) but I'm sure it will be a great car!

Cheers!
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      11-26-2008, 07:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FifthStreetz View Post
but its sad to see "M" trucks, i wish BMW would stick to their heritage and not be conformists.
That's what most Porsche owners said when the Cayenne came out and guess what, most of them bought one anyways!
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      11-26-2008, 07:46 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTM View Post
I don't mind turbo or NA.

With direct injection and high compression ratio, the new turbo system should be very responsive and lag-less.
All turbos have lag. The 335 has plenty of it. I for one very much don't like this. Just a little more motivation to earn the money to get a AM or Ferrari.
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      11-26-2008, 08:11 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ase2dais View Post
I cant see myself as a turbo kinda guy with all its related first year issues like the 335i, resale on a turbo out of warranty is a killer
+1
Although my 2007 335i didn't have a HPFP failure (but I only owned it 1.5 years with only 13K miles), it did die on a trip PHX to SAN due to a failed fuel injector 2 days after re-delivery from my ED trip
and then as mentioned earlier, the post warranty turbo and forced induction repair costs
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      11-26-2008, 08:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMorish View Post
That's what most Porsche owners said when the Cayenne came out and guess what, most of them bought one anyways!
lol thats true.
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      11-26-2008, 08:40 PM   #34
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why is my name in the title?
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      11-26-2008, 08:46 PM   #35
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keep in mind people said the same thing when the E36 came out with a 6cyl engine
and honestly the 4 cyl in the E30 was a gem.
but we got over it
and we got over the switch to 8 cyl
when the E46 fans said 8 cyl was too much and it would make the car too heavy
they've always pushed the limits
and they've done well
i'd still rather have an M3 than an RS4 or C63
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      11-26-2008, 09:02 PM   #36
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I kind of expected this.

But OT... what the hell is with the X6? It kinds of reminds me of the Pontiac Aztek. I think it is the ugliest, pointless car, SAV, or whatever. Now this will be an XM6 iDive55tticsac?

So now they want to make a track ready SUV? Kind of like making an off-road version of the Z4. Let's go off-roading with the top down!

I hope BMW comes to their senses and cancels this riduculous thing.
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      11-26-2008, 09:51 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo View Post
Wow... all BMW has to do now is throw some turbos on an engine for "regular" BMWs and call it an M... Um, I think M is no longer M... and we've got the last and what a shame. I'll never buy another M and just hold on to the one I have for as long as I can.

Also, it would be one thing to make an engine from scratch for the M, and then put turbos on it. But to add turbos to any old engine in the line-up is pure - SELL OUT.
Sam Smith wrote a great article in Roundel last month about this.

Agreed, M means much more than slapping a turbo on an otherwise stock engine. I hope they at least try to make them special.

As others have said - its becoming M for Marketing instead of M for Motorsports. We can draw a direct line from the F1 program to the M5.

What kind of line gets us from the F1 program to the X6.

Has Mercedes added something to the water supply in Munich? Like crack?
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      11-26-2008, 10:06 PM   #38
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I just hope they will switch to 4 pistons caliper.
Like MMMorish menshioned and someone else, 993 911 has held its value. In fact, very few are available. Those that own one are holding on to them.
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      11-26-2008, 10:09 PM   #39
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I don't know how the E92 M3 is because I haven't driven it yet (don't want to spend the $$$$ just yet) but the throttle response on my E46 M3's was razor sharp. I'm guessing the E92 M3 is the same. I wonder if they will be able to achieve that with the turboed engine?
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      11-26-2008, 10:11 PM   #40
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Hopefully my next car will be a GT3 anyway. However, in the case of M cars, who cares if they go to turbos because they will still be great engines. BMW has won engine of the year how many times??
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      11-26-2008, 10:30 PM   #41
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If they come out with the current M3 engine with DFI and twin-trubos and lighter chasis, it might change my mind depending how the car behaves, but as of now, I'll be looking at alot more other options....
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      11-26-2008, 10:32 PM   #42
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can only dream of a v10 m3 with a lighter chasis
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      11-27-2008, 11:09 AM   #43
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Future M3's To Be FI



http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/27/b...harged-m-cars/
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      11-27-2008, 11:16 AM   #44
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Don't like that idea. I know it is for the fuel economy, but FI car never sound as good as NA.

M cars won't be so special anymore if they go FI. Then what's the diff of having the m or 335i?

You won't be seeing 8-9k redline from M car anymore
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