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      10-03-2008, 11:11 AM   #1
Garissimo
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C&D's Lightning Lap, 2008

This was posted on the e90 board but I didn't see it over here so I thought I'd start a new thread. It's particularly interesting because it's the first track comparo I've seen featuring an M3 with DSG. Apparrently, the M3 turned in good numbers, but the transmission was less than trouble-free. Here's the blurb:

"You may also find it remarkable that the BMW M3ís best lap trailed the big Caddyís best time by 1.6 seconds. The CTS-V does enjoy a power-to-weight edge over the M3, 7.7 pounds per horsepower versus 8.8, and the Cadillacís chassis and suspension are good enough to exploit that edge. But the real difference was the M3ís automated manual gearbox, which didnít want to downshift on command, and our best lap was achieved while driving the car in pure automatic mode."

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      10-04-2008, 08:47 PM   #2
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Here's the results table...

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      10-05-2008, 11:22 AM   #3
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How about Ferrari's scud missile! What an exciting ride that must be.
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      10-07-2008, 01:18 AM   #4
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Wow, a good showing by GM .. Cobalt, Corvette, CTS-V all impressed. I think it's safe to say that the CTS-V is a viable competitor. Good competition breeds good cars, so it's a win-win for all of us.
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      10-09-2008, 09:15 PM   #5
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So again all the winners are American cars. I think last year lightning laps were all won by American cars as well! Correct me if I am wrong.
I love this Magazine.
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      10-09-2008, 10:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
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So again all the winners are American cars. I think last year lightning laps were all won by American cars as well! Correct me if I am wrong.
I love this Magazine.
True, but I would rather be in the Scuderia. The Mosler is kind of a kit car and the ACR is a street legal race car.
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      10-10-2008, 07:01 AM   #7
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True, but I would rather be in the Scuderia. The Mosler is kind of a kit car and the ACR is a street legal race car.
well, that is exactly what I meant. I think those results are only true when cars are tested in America and by C&D's .
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      10-10-2008, 11:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
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So again all the winners are American cars. I think last year lightning laps were all won by American cars as well! Correct me if I am wrong.
I love this Magazine.
C&D's test was simple: fastest one around the track wins. The American cars in this test took the cake because they are purpose-built for the track. C&D did not attempt or claim to evaluate the subjective qualities of these cars that make the European models more desirable.

My only fault with this review is that they could have brought in some more European exotics to compete. For example, Lambo is conspicuously missing from the field.
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      10-10-2008, 11:45 AM   #9
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I'm sure the difference in "feel" between the CTS V and M3 is quite substantial......the caddy has to be a brute with all that weight and HP to get around the track.....compared to the far lighter more nimble M3....
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      10-10-2008, 12:08 PM   #10
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I'm sure the difference in "feel" between the CTS V and M3 is quite substantial......the caddy has to be a brute with all that weight and HP to get around the track.....compared to the far lighter more nimble M3....
Exactly. It was not the goal of this test to capture this and other subjective factors. That doesn't make the testers biased to American cars like a few have implied in this thread.
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      10-13-2008, 10:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLud View Post
C&D's test was simple: fastest one around the track wins. The American cars in this test took the cake because they are purpose-built for the track. C&D did not attempt or claim to evaluate the subjective qualities of these cars that make the European models more desirable.

My only fault with this review is that they could have brought in some more European exotics to compete. For example, Lambo is conspicuously missing from the field.
and you still think they are unbiased ! by the way, i don't think the CTS-V is a "purpose-built for the track" car ! correct me if I am wrong
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      10-13-2008, 10:48 PM   #12
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and you still think they are unbiased ! by the way, i don't think the CTS-V is a "purpose-built for the track" car ! correct me if I am wrong
If there's one thing you can count on, it's cries of "bias!" no matter what happens in a comparo. You can't just look at the cars tested this year and ignore everything from previous years - that's the whole reason they do it at the same track every year. It's like the Top Gear test track; you don't start from scratch every year.

The cars tested this year are added to the complete list of all LL cars. Take a look at the results for 2006 and 2007 before you make any accusations. No, Lambo hasn't been represented, but there are plenty of European cars, including the Audi R8 and RS4, several Porsche variants, more BMW's, and another Lotus.
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      10-13-2008, 11:03 PM   #13
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and you still think they are unbiased ! by the way, i don't think the CTS-V is a "purpose-built for the track" car ! correct me if I am wrong
I didn't say that C&D is generally unbiased; I was referring to this test in isolation. I take everything I read in the car mags with a grain of salt.

Maybe "purpose built for the track" was the wrong expression. But when you drop an engine pushing 550 hp and 550 lb-ft of torque into a car that size with a reasonably stiff suspension, it will haul a$$. Will it make it around the track as cleanly and with as much finesse as its European competion? No, but the Americans and the Europeans have always skinned the proverbial cat in different ways.

Other than not including certain foreign cars, which I mentioned above, how was this particular test manifestly biased? Did they put 3rd graders behind the wheels of the European cars? Sure the rags generally have an agenda, but its petty when readers scream bias when the cars they prefer don't come out on top.
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      10-14-2008, 01:14 AM   #14
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Surprised how close the C63 is to the M3 on the time of the lap.
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      10-14-2008, 01:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Surprised how close the C63 is to the M3 on the time of the lap.
It is a long, power track.

The M3 is quicker through tighter transitions regardless. They also mentioned the old DCT software was an issue.
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      10-28-2008, 09:22 PM   #16
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I have the hard copy of this... was reading the other day...

with a working tranny in the m3 it would have taken the caddy, and as for the ISF, S5, C63, G37, SRT8, Evo, etc... check out our the M3's tail lights!!!!

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      10-29-2008, 02:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Surprised how close the C63 is to the M3 on the time of the lap.
I was surprised at the C63's high finish as well.

However after I actually DROVE MY C63 ON THE TRACK .... to my own surprise, it is a very capable car! You'd be amazed at the balance and stability it has. I know I was. I took it out expecting to be subjected to piggish weight and understeer. What I felt instead was a neutral car with tons of power and great brakes. It picked up speed frighteningly quick and drifted neutrally through high speed sweepers and over elevation changes. To be really fast in a C63, you just need a big set of balls, and a smooth hand. To be really fast in an M3 you probably don't need either.
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      10-29-2008, 05:32 PM   #18
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I was more surprised to see the IS-F so far behind. Did they have problems with it?
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      10-29-2008, 09:16 PM   #19
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I think the Elise without a supercharger ran like a 3:08 last year or the year before, so with the supercharger and more HP, it's slower? Doesn't seem right.
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