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      10-25-2008, 04:25 PM   #1
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Question Superchargers

Hey guys, i know there a bunch of threads for superchargers and engine mods but i cant really get the answer Im looking for, So i just wanted to start a fresh thread. How many people have successfully made a supercharger for the M3? Is It worth getting one? Thanks
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      10-25-2008, 06:44 PM   #2
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GPower I believe is the only tuner out with a SC kit as of yet. It is however expensive as hell, about $25,000 for their basic kit that produces about 530bhp and about $40,000 for one that changes all the internals and produces about 600bhp!!

Serveral other tuners are working with FI such as AA in the United States, it is however unlikely that these kits will produce over 510 to 530 bhp without working the internals of the engine as these machines can take no more that about 0.30 BAR of boost or risk damaging the engine. It is also unlikely that you will find anything reliable out there even when these kits are developed for less than $15,000. I think more around $20 grand.
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      10-25-2008, 07:05 PM   #3
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im curious what AA's kit is going to be like and what kind of power it will produce. Also hopping its under 10k lol
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      10-25-2008, 08:20 PM   #4
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Wow, I see thanks for the heads up
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      10-25-2008, 08:32 PM   #5
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I think I'd rather pick up a used 997 TT or GTR than get a gpower supercharger
hell, I could almost pick up a used gallardo
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      10-25-2008, 09:35 PM   #6
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How about a Dinan stroker with a warranty?
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      10-26-2008, 01:07 AM   #7
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VF-engineering is working on theirs and AA will have one of course.

Internals are forged and the heads flow extremely well, expect big gains.
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      10-26-2008, 11:04 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
How about a Dinan stroker with a warranty?
That will be at least $30,000!! I like keeping it NA and these Dinana kit will produce plenty of hp and additional torque, but I think this one guy wants FI because of the lower potential cost.
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      10-26-2008, 11:06 AM   #9
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VF-engineering is working on theirs and AA will have one of course.

Internals are forged and the heads flow extremely well, expect big gains.
I spoke with AA and they don't expect to have their kit ready until early next year and don't expect there kit to be either below $10 grand (could of course be wrong) or to produce much over 500bhp.

With the forged internals, low compression pistons, etc... VF engineering should be looking a huge power gains but also huge $$$$!
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      10-26-2008, 12:23 PM   #10
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The Hamann Thunder was featured in Bimmer magazine which was a 325i or 328i totally reuilt with M3 everything and a 550hp V10. They only had 0-60mph which was 4.3 or 4.2 I believe and then went on to say that traction, weight and aerodynamic drag were the limiting factors.

That car did have 305s on the rear.

I'm wondering how much of an improvement a supercharger kit will be? I supercharged my 330Ci and that was a huge difference. I'd hate to spend $10k+ on a marginal improvement. I'm sure it would help rocketing out of tight corners on the track but what is the use if you can't put the power to the ground?

DISCLAIMER: I just read this...really not an expert on this.
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      10-26-2008, 02:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
The Hamann Thunder was featured in Bimmer magazine which was a 325i or 328i totally reuilt with M3 everything and a 550hp V10. They only had 0-60mph which was 4.3 or 4.2 I believe and then went on to say that traction, weight and aerodynamic drag were the limiting factors.

That car did have 305s on the rear.

I'm wondering how much of an improvement a supercharger kit will be? I supercharged my 330Ci and that was a huge difference. I'd hate to spend $10k+ on a marginal improvement. I'm sure it would help rocketing out of tight corners on the track but what is the use if you can't put the power to the ground?

DISCLAIMER: I just read this...really not an expert on this.
This is more of an issue of too much torque. The V10 also makes the car much more front heavy and affects rear wheel traction. Also affects the car´s balance. Now this V10 must be a hell of a best after 100kph etc...

Anyway, if you keep the engine NA with a stoker kit, you actually do avoid all these issues as the front of the car is made a tad lighter but you get all that additional power and retain the absolutely great thottle response. FI will undoubtedly add weight albeit perhaps at a lower cost. Although I really doubt anyone will come up with an under 10K FI kit for these cars.
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      10-26-2008, 02:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
The Hamann Thunder was featured in Bimmer magazine which was a 325i or 328i totally reuilt with M3 everything and a 550hp V10. They only had 0-60mph which was 4.3 or 4.2 I believe and then went on to say that traction, weight and aerodynamic drag were the limiting factors.

That car did have 305s on the rear.

I'm wondering how much of an improvement a supercharger kit will be? I supercharged my 330Ci and that was a huge difference. I'd hate to spend $10k+ on a marginal improvement. I'm sure it would help rocketing out of tight corners on the track but what is the use if you can't put the power to the ground?

DISCLAIMER: I just read this...really not an expert on this.
Oh, I should also add an important point, the car in queston did NOT have an M3-differential that would make a hell of a difference as well. If I recall, it had an SMG tranny, but not the differential.
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      10-26-2008, 03:02 PM   #13
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I think VF's kit should be reasonably priced and should be out soon. We cannot expect that much of a gain (500 to mid-500's) because of the high compresion ratio. I think we just have to wait to see what these engines could handle and the drivetrain could handle. Like the S54, at first no one thought it could handle alot of power, but until people started pushing its limits did people realize what a strong motor the s54 was.
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      10-26-2008, 04:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
I spoke with AA and they don't expect to have their kit ready until early next year and don't expect there kit to be either below $10 grand (could of course be wrong) or to produce much over 500bhp.

With the forged internals, low compression pistons, etc... VF engineering should be looking a huge power gains but also huge $$$$!
They are going to boost the stock internals first. Just like they did with the E46 M3, which was capable of over 600 wheel on 11.5:1 with less displacement. Should be under 15k again, they are using a Vortech T-trim.
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      10-26-2008, 07:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
This is more of an issue of too much torque. The V10 also makes the car much more front heavy and affects rear wheel traction. Also affects the car´s balance. Now this V10 must be a hell of a best after 100kph etc...

Anyway, if you keep the engine NA with a stoker kit, you actually do avoid all these issues as the front of the car is made a tad lighter but you get all that additional power and retain the absolutely great thottle response. FI will undoubtedly add weight albeit perhaps at a lower cost. Although I really doubt anyone will come up with an under 10K FI kit for these cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
Oh, I should also add an important point, the car in queston did NOT have an M3-differential that would make a hell of a difference as well. If I recall, it had an SMG tranny, but not the differential.
I'm not sure of the details, I just assumed it had an M3 rear. Still, after a few years, you could spend $15k on an s/c kit for an E46 M3 and get a 50%-75% gain in whp. Only time will tell but I'm thinking that s/c kits will come out much faster for the E9x M3 than it did for the E46 M3. It took a couple of years to see reliable kits for the E46.

Personally, I think I will leave well enough alone with my future car
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      10-27-2008, 11:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
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They are going to boost the stock internals first. Just like they did with the E46 M3, which was capable of over 600 wheel on 11.5:1 with less displacement. Should be under 15k again, they are using a Vortech T-trim.
No argument here Sticky, but these engines are not a 1 on 1 in terms of displacement. That is to say, not because you have more displacement means you can boost the power up as you did before. I of course may be entirely wrong and accept this, but I doubt it if AA or anyone can rework internals, all the pluming and intercoolers, etc..., etc... for under $15 grand and reliably achieve a 700bhp (over 600whp) out of the S65 V8 engine!! I just don't see it. But, I suppose only time will tell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I'm not sure of the details, I just assumed it had an M3 rear. Still, after a few years, you could spend $15k on an s/c kit for an E46 M3 and get a 50%-75% gain in whp. Only time will tell but I'm thinking that s/c kits will come out much faster for the E9x M3 than it did for the E46 M3. It took a couple of years to see reliable kits for the E46.

Personally, I think I will leave well enough alone with my future car
+1!! Oh, and here is the link the the Hamman 560bhp V10, it’s based on a regular 3 series coupe with an M3 kit etc…, etc…, and does not appear to have the M-diff that if installed am almost certain would allow this car, especially with the huge 325s in the rear, to reach 0-60 below 4.0 seconds. http://www.rsportscars.com/bmw/2007-bmw-hamann-thunder/
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      10-27-2008, 06:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
No argument here Sticky, but these engines are not a 1 on 1 in terms of displacement. That is to say, not because you have more displacement means you can boost the power up as you did before. I of course may be entirely wrong and accept this, but I doubt it if AA or anyone can rework internals, all the pluming and intercoolers, etc..., etc... for under $15 grand and reliably achieve a 700bhp (over 600whp) out of the S65 V8 engine!! I just don't see it. But, I suppose only time will tell.




+1!! Oh, and here is the link the the Hamman 560bhp V10, it’s based on a regular 3 series coupe with an M3 kit etc…, etc…, and does not appear to have the M-diff that if installed am almost certain would allow this car, especially with the huge 325s in the rear, to reach 0-60 below 4.0 seconds. http://www.rsportscars.com/bmw/2007-bmw-hamann-thunder/
If they do rework the stock internals, for huge gains, it will be well over 15k.

On stock internals I am expecting 525 rwhp. I mentioned 600 wheel as to what the internals were capable of handling, I don't think any supercharged E46 M3 hit this number, the turbo cars did.

Either way, it is going to be fun to see what happens.
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      10-27-2008, 10:08 PM   #18
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If they do rework the stock internals, for huge gains, it will be well over 15k.

On stock internals I am expecting 525 rwhp. I mentioned 600 wheel as to what the internals were capable of handling, I don't think any supercharged E46 M3 hit this number, the turbo cars did.

Either way, it is going to be fun to see what happens.
Yep, agreed on everything Sticky, just think 525 may be a tad much for rwhp, but perhaps they will make that much. Time will tell.
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