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      09-24-2008, 08:01 PM   #23
CinciE92M3
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I ended up ordering a set of front HP10's from RaceShopper.com. $157 for the set. I guess I'll stick with factory pads for the rear... Hawk's not yet making rear pads.

Joe-
I'm going to give these a shot first... I agree that if they shatter it's bad news, but I'm hoping they would have made some improvements in the last 8 years. Regardless, I'll give them a call and see what they say. Maybe next year I'll get the Pagids. I'm still in sticker shock from buying the car, the invizi-bra, the laser jammer, the track tires, etc. etc.
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      09-24-2008, 09:05 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by CinciE92M3 View Post
I ended up ordering a set of front HP10's from RaceShopper.com. $157 for the set. I guess I'll stick with factory pads for the rear... Hawk's not yet making rear pads.

Joe-
I'm going to give these a shot first... I agree that if they shatter it's bad news, but I'm hoping they would have made some improvements in the last 8 years. Regardless, I'll give them a call and see what they say. Maybe next year I'll get the Pagids. I'm still in sticker shock from buying the car, the invizi-bra, the laser jammer, the track tires, etc. etc.
My experience is that the rears word REALLY HARD on the E92 M3. The rear pads are the same fitment as the E6x M5 and M6 (as well as pretty much all of the 5xx series and most of the 7's as well), so maybe there's a proper race pad you can use. Having seen my rears smoking with Pagid RS19's, I wouldn't assume they can be stock pads and all will be well.
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      09-24-2008, 09:17 PM   #25
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Are you sure about the rear pads being the same fitment? If so, I can probably get matching HT10s. Great info though, thanks!

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My experience is that the rears word REALLY HARD on the E92 M3. The rear pads are the same fitment as the E6x M5 and M6 (as well as pretty much all of the 5xx series and most of the 7's as well), so maybe there's a proper race pad you can use. Having seen my rears smoking with Pagid RS19's, I wouldn't assume they can be stock pads and all will be well.
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      09-25-2008, 12:31 AM   #26
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Are you sure about the rear pads being the same fitment?
Yup. Look at the Pagid Racing USA site and search for BMW race pads - they list the identical pads for the cars I mentioned. I actually exchanged emails with them before they put that on the website and the guy there confirmed that they're the same.
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      09-25-2008, 06:20 AM   #27
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OK, cool. Thanks!
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      09-25-2008, 09:44 AM   #28
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I was checking out Pagid's website and found some interesting information:

Name:  Pagid.png
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According to the chart, not only does the M3 share rear pads with the M5 and M6, it has the same front pads as a 335! Does this sound right? If this is the case then front pads should not be that hard to find!

Rears on the other hand...
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      09-25-2008, 10:09 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinciE92M3 View Post
I was checking out Pagid's website and found some interesting information:

Attachment 188631

According to the chart, not only does the M3 share rear pads with the M5 and M6, it has the same front pads as a 335! Does this sound right? If this is the case then front pads should not be that hard to find!

Rears on the other hand...
I did a lot of digging on European auto parts websites back in April and eventually figured out the origins of the M3 pads. What I also discovered is that nobody that I would take seriously (that rules out EBC) makes race pads for regular production BMW's, not even Pagid who operates in their home market. Even on the Pagid site, the 335i is the exception to that rule.
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      09-25-2008, 03:38 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
spend the extra money for Pagids or Performance Friction. I ran Hawk blues on my race car and had them fail. Now admittedly, this was 8 years ago, but I wasn't the only one. At some point in their life they start to crumble. When they do, you lose your brakes and scatter corner workers. Ask me how I know.

At least ask the Hawk rep about this issue with Hawk Blues. If he says he's never heard of the problem, pass. If he says they worked that out, give 'em a try. But inspect them regularly for cracking.

tracked my e46 m3 with Hawk HP+ and they worked great.
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      09-25-2008, 03:42 PM   #31
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I talked to the Hawk rep again today. Apparently there was a confirmed problem with "a few" pads coming loose from their backing plates. They have since modified their process (called "NRS", whatever that means) where they use a bunch of "fingers" coming out of the backing plate as well as their bonding agent. Apparently this worked so well that they implemented it across the board.

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At least ask the Hawk rep about this issue with Hawk Blues. If he says he's never heard of the problem, pass. If he says they worked that out, give 'em a try. But inspect them regularly for cracking.
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      09-27-2008, 11:37 AM   #32
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it does appear that the rear brakes do work harder than most cars.....my rear brakes got significantly hotter than my 928 did......but the 928 has a stupid low brake bias, so the rears don't do much....
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      09-29-2008, 10:30 AM   #33
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Turner was out of stock for the Pagid RS19 fronts. I spoke with a few people and called around a bit and ordered a set of Carbotechs. I went for their medium compound (XP8) since I never got around to getting track wheels/rubber. I'm planning to use up whatever is left of the stock rubber this weekend, and then think about a track setup for next year. The guy I spoke with at Carbotech sounded friendly and informative. I'll let you guys know how the pads perform. Their pricing is reasonable: ~$350 total for the fronts and rears with BMW CCA membership discount.

http://www.ctbrakes.com/pads/bmw.html
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      09-29-2008, 11:05 AM   #34
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Quote:
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just used the Pagid RS19 yellow at Laguna Seca today...wow what a difference to stock pads...all I can say is bite bite bite...somebody said boat anchors...I can second that. They are noisy like hell on regular streets, but I am willing to live with it. It also seems that they wear 10 times better than the street pads and they also don't overheat.

The close to $800 was definitely worth it, at least if you are serious about tracking your car
Forgot to add earlier that when I ran them on my GT3, they were very rotor friendly.
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      09-29-2008, 11:08 AM   #35
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Quote:
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I agree completely - if you don't mind the "schoolbus" sound effects on the street, the RS19's are awesome. They stop great until they get hot, then they REALLY stop.

Installing Stoptech stainless brake lines really improves the pedal feel, by the way. My brake pedal tended to sink a bit and make heel-and-toe a little dicey, but the new pads, new flexible lines and Castrol SRF have made the whole setup rock solid.
Yeah, told ya! I loved those pads! Prolly get a set for the E90 M3 too, when I finally get around to it. lol

Good point about the SS lines. I was wondering how they felt on the M...thanks for the input!

I ran SS lines on my E36 M3's and noticed a nice improvement on feel at the track. Looks like I will get some for the new M too!
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      09-29-2008, 11:15 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
spend the extra money for Pagids or Performance Friction.
+1 on this...

Brakes are CRITICAL. Don't skimp on pads....it is not worth it. I have been tracking for 12 years now. I have tried many many brands of pads over the years. What have a I learned? You get what you pay for with brake pads.

Yeah, the RS19's are expensive, but I found them to be second to none in feel, braking friction/grip, heat/fade resistance, AND wear.

They will last a LONG LONG time and are friendly to the rotors. A great pad when you consider all things. Although expensive, the overall bang for the buck is well worth it. Just IMHO and my experience. I am going to stick with them.

EDIT: PF pads are one of the pads I did not try in my years.....they are one of the only other pads I heard wonderful things about. I found Pagids and loved them, so I stuck with them.
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      09-29-2008, 09:50 PM   #37
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just survived three days at Cal speedway with the stock pads - however the i-drive says I will need front pads at 6000 miles. I am at 3200.

MarksM recommends the Carbotech 12.
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      09-29-2008, 10:37 PM   #38
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MarksM recommends the Carbotech 12.
The Carbotech guy on the phone did not recommend the 12s without track rubber, so I went with the 8s. If I like their product, I'll switch to the 12s next year when I get track wheels.
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      09-29-2008, 10:43 PM   #39
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You get what you pay for with brake pads.
I agree, but that kind of depends on how linear the price/performance relationship is. When things go non-linear, which they always do with any product, the additional performance might not make sense for the increased cost delta. $800 for pads is pretty steep, especially if you are out there mainly to have a good time as opposed to posting lap times.
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      09-29-2008, 11:28 PM   #40
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Quote:
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just survived three days at Cal speedway with the stock pads - however the i-drive says I will need front pads at 6000 miles. I am at 3200.

MarksM recommends the Carbotech 12.
My i-drive says I'm due in 8000 miles. That said, I'm running relatively new RS19's.

It's clear the brake sensor doesn't measure brake wear, the accelerometer measures how hard you stop, then guesses at how much wear the brakes are getting.
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      09-30-2008, 02:28 AM   #41
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The Carbotech guy on the phone did not recommend the 12s without track rubber, so I went with the 8s. If I like their product, I'll switch to the 12s next year when I get track wheels.
well MarksM has track rubber.
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      09-30-2008, 07:34 AM   #42
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My i-drive says I'm due in 8000 miles. That said, I'm running relatively new RS19's.

It's clear the brake sensor doesn't measure brake wear, the accelerometer measures how hard you stop, then guesses at how much wear the brakes are getting.
To the best of my knowledge, the brake sensor is a binary switch. It comes on when the pad wears out to the degree that a ground loop is broken. So you might be correct in that the system is using some other data stream to guess at what's left.
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      09-30-2008, 11:21 AM   #43
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To the best of my knowledge, the brake sensor is a binary switch. It comes on when the pad wears out to the degree that a ground loop is broken. So you might be correct in that the system is using some other data stream to guess at what's left.
Roger that.

The warning light goes off when the rotor eats through the sensor. Obviously, the "life remaining" is an estimation based on some other data.
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      02-17-2009, 12:31 AM   #44
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I thought I'd revive this thread with an update on the HT-10's. I did my one event last year with HT10's on the front and stock pads on the rear. Everything held up fine, and the brakes performed quite well. The problems I had were with squealing. I drove home with the HT10's still on, and about anything under 30 MPH resulted in a nasty squeal... all the way to a stop. It was embarrassing!

I reinstalled the stock pads, but the problem continued, so I took them off and applied anti-squeal. This helped a bit, but it took nearly 3 months of driving to (almost) get rid of the squeal.

I don't know if the Hawk compound was incompatible with the stock compound, or if I damaged the rotors during the school, but I'm looking for a better alternative for this season.

If anyone has any suggestions (pads, swapping strategy, etc.) I'm all ears.

Thanks!
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