Am I the only one?? BBKs too big for track use...

[sfbimmer13]

Folks, I am really starting to get annoyed about the fact that most people - assumption on my part - get a BBK mostly for looks and bling factor, thereby driving Brake makers into coming to market with kits that are simply not usable for the track since they require 19" rims. Fact is that the only R-Compounds available in that size are Hoosiers (don't like them) and PSCs which I don't like since they are neither a good street nor a great track tire + the are too expensive

Am I the only one that would like to see a brake kit with multipiston calipers and a rotorsize that is suitable for 18" track wheels?

I have asked pretty much all brake manufacturers and they all go with a 6 piston caliper and a 380 mm rotor. I am counting on Turner Motorsports or UUC to address this and hope there will be a solution soon.

[skierman64]

As I've said in another forum, I believe the stock brake system with track pads and better brake fluid will work just fine, perhaps with the addition of a brake duct kit to keep the temps in check.

Brake ducting is the most cost effective improvement you can make to assist the brakes in cooling. Now we just have to wait for someone to develop a system for the E9x.

[sfbimmer13]

Originally Posted by skierman64

As I've said in another forum, I believe the stock brake system with track pads and better brake fluid will work just fine, perhaps with the addition of a brake duct kit to keep the temps in check.

Brake ducting is the most cost effective improvement you can make to assist the brakes in cooling. Now we just have to wait for someone to develop a system for the E9x.

if there will be a brake duct kit - I would be sooo all over that and of course I agree with your statements

as you probably know I am already running Pagid RS19s and ATE Racing Blue brake fluid

[Radiation Joe]

What will certainly be the best brake set-up available is coming from Performance Friction. Go to the Bimmerworld site and look up their BBKs. I'd link it, but Bimmerworld's site doesn't link well for me. At $8k it's pretty pricey.

[sfbimmer13]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

What will certainly be the best brake set-up available is coming from Performance Friction. Go to the Bimmerworld site and look up their BBKs. I'd link it, but Bimmerworld's site doesn't link well for me. At $8k it's pretty pricey.

unfortunately it doesn't say how big the rotors are - do you by any chance know?

[skierman64]

Personnally, I wouldn't spend that kind of dough on a upgraded brake system until I confirmed that the stock system with proper cooling, pads, fluid could not handle track use. But that's just me.

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by sfbimmer13

unfortunately it doesn't say how big the rotors are - do you by any chance know?

I don't know. You can call Bimmerworld and they'll tell you. I assure you that they will fit under 18 inch wheels, though.

PF are the kings of minimalism. I'd just about guarantee that the rotors will be stock size and will be stock replacements.

Skierman, I agree with you.

[JAJ]

I wrote this about three weeks ago in another thread on this board - suffice it to say I AGREE! We need to campaign for an 18"-rim-friendly BBK for the track.

"I did find myself thinking about Stoptechs the other day. When I got the car, my plan had been to put them on as early as possible. I had them on my E39 M5 and they were super. However, I eventually concluded that marketing overcame common sense in their product design for the E9x, forcing me to stay with the stock brakes. Not a bad choice, really - they're working fine so far.

The problem I have with the design of Stoptech E9x fronts is that they have 380mm rotors and 6-piston calipers. From my 400 pounds heavier M5, I know that 355mm rotors and 4-piston calipers will stop this lighter car just fine. Stoptech's choice of the big rotors and calipers force you to use 19" rims, sharply restricting your available track tire choices. The few really good extreme-summer and R-comp choices available in 19" will set you back between $400 to $600 more than 18's at every tire change. The sad part is that there's no performance benefit from the larger tires, larger wheels or larger brakes - they reduce your options for tires and brake pads and they make driving more expensive - that's it.

The perfect track-rat package for the E9x brakes would be 355x32 rotors all around with ST-40 calipers. The range of available pad materials is vast, they're a breeze to change, 18" tires and wheels will fit, and nobody will ever miss the two-tenths of an inch in rotor diameter.

Sigh. How hard can this be?"

[sfbimmer13]

Originally Posted by JAJ

I wrote this about three weeks ago in another thread on this board - suffice it to say I AGREE! We need to campaign for an 18"-rim-friendly BBK for the track.

"I did find myself thinking about Stoptechs the other day. When I got the car, my plan had been to put them on as early as possible. I had them on my E39 M5 and they were super. However, I eventually concluded that marketing overcame common sense in their product design for the E9x, forcing me to stay with the stock brakes. Not a bad choice, really - they're working fine so far.

The problem I have with the design of Stoptech E9x fronts is that they have 380mm rotors and 6-piston calipers. From my 400 pounds heavier M5, I know that 355mm rotors and 4-piston calipers will stop this lighter car just fine. Stoptech's choice of the big rotors and calipers force you to use 19" rims, sharply restricting your available track tire choices. The few really good extreme-summer and R-comp choices available in 19" will set you back between $400 to $600 more than 18's at every tire change. The sad part is that there's no performance benefit from the larger tires, larger wheels or larger brakes - they reduce your options for tires and brake pads and they make driving more expensive - that's it.

The perfect track-rat package for the E9x brakes would be 355x32 rotors all around with ST-40 calipers. The range of available pad materials is vast, they're a breeze to change, 18" tires and wheels will fit, and nobody will ever miss the two-tenths of an inch in rotor diameter.

Sigh. How hard can this be?"

+1.000.000

[ace996]

Originally Posted by JAJ

The perfect track-rat package for the E9x brakes would be 355x32 rotors all around with ST-40 calipers. The range of available pad materials is vast, they're a breeze to change, 18" tires and wheels will fit, and nobody will ever miss the two-tenths of an inch in rotor diameter.

You hit the nail on the head, bro, although I'd rather have the calipers bolt-up with the stock rotors...but I'd not turn away from your suggestion.
If ST came out with that kit, it'd probably be the standard for track guys...

[watrob]

I think you have hit the nail on the head. It would be not only the best way but the cheapest way to just have replacement calipers available for the M3 to bolt start on.

Has anyone contacted ATE, are they not the suppliers of the brakes for most BMW and would they have another caliper to put on or is that imfomation incorrect?

[watrob]

ATE Brakes, I suppose you are all aware of this and you have probably already gone over it but I wonder if you can just buy the front only caliper without rotor?

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by skierman64

Personnally, I wouldn't spend that kind of dough on a upgraded brake system until I confirmed that the stock system with proper cooling, pads, fluid could not handle track use. But that's just me.

x2.....I mean..... x $5000 ?

[Gearhead999s]

I am just going to do pads & brake fluid.From what I saw of the video from SFBimmer and how hard he was pounding the brakes with the tires chattering away,they will work just fine for myself.The one thing that I will be looking into which will really help the brakes will be better cooling which might even include blowers in the ducting just like they use on a 3400lb stockcar.
The one thing that we learned in endurance racing was how to conserve your brakes with minimal effect on lap times.Things like rolling out of the throttle 50 ft early before getting on the brakes and being very smooth with the application not just standing on them will reap huge rewards in brake life with only making about a 1 second difference in lap times at a track like Mosport.In a "showroom stock" 325is we went 24 hours at Mosport with no pad changes and still had enough left to to run practice & qualifying at the next race.We won that race in class by 22 laps but failed tech due to my engine builders oversite in the cylinder head but so did the next 9 cars in class also get DQed for the same infraction

[JAJ]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

I am just going to do pads & brake fluid.

That's what I did - Castrol SRF, Pagid RS-19's, Stoptech stainless flex hoses. It's not as smooth as a BBK, but it STOPS just fine.

[sayemthree]

just paint them red!

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

just paint them red!

Nah!I think I will just paint them black

[ModBargains.com]

Originally Posted by sfbimmer13

Folks, I am really starting to get annoyed about the fact that most people - assumption on my part - get a BBK mostly for looks and bling factor, thereby driving Brake makers into coming to market with kits that are simply not usable for the track since they require 19" rims. Fact is that the only R-Compounds available in that size are Hoosiers (don't like them) and PSCs which I don't like since they are neither a good street nor a great track tire + the are too expensive

Am I the only one that would like to see a brake kit with multipiston calipers and a rotorsize that is suitable for 18" track wheels?

I have asked pretty much all brake manufacturers and they all go with a 6 piston caliper and a 380 mm rotor. I am counting on Turner Motorsports or UUC to address this and hope there will be a solution soon.

If you want to stick with the smaller wheels (18"), then I would stick with stock discs and better performance brake pads. Honestly, going 19" lightweights wheels aren't a bad thing, especially with true-functioning BBKs (like Brembo). I know that the big brake kits are huge and they don't fit your typical 18" or 17" wheel, but your cars have massive amounts of power. Going 1" bigger on your stock 18" isn't going to hurt, and it'll give you a much better braking performance.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by James************

If you want to stick with the smaller wheels (18"), then I would stick with stock discs and better performance brake pads. Honestly, going 19" lightweights wheels aren't a bad thing, especially with true-functioning BBKs (like Brembo). I know that the big brake kits are huge and they don't fit your typical 18" or 17" wheel, but your cars have massive amounts of power. Going 1" bigger on your stock 18" isn't going to hurt, and it'll give you a much better braking performance.

I think that you are missing the point that most of us are using 18's for our track setup for a reason.To run 19's you limit yourself in the choice of R compound tires and the ones that are available are a lot more money than the 18's that are trackworthy.

[sfbimmer13]

Originally Posted by James************

If you want to stick with the smaller wheels (18"), then I would stick with stock discs and better performance brake pads. Honestly, going 19" lightweights wheels aren't a bad thing, especially with true-functioning BBKs (like Brembo). I know that the big brake kits are huge and they don't fit your typical 18" or 17" wheel, but your cars have massive amounts of power. Going 1" bigger on your stock 18" isn't going to hurt, and it'll give you a much better braking performance.

thanks James, however I would only consider this if there actually were really lighweight 19" rims (below 20 pounds) and a broader choice of R Compounds in 19", which right now is not the case. In addition to that you have to run the 19s with less sidewall which is also not preferred on the track...

[consolidated]

Agree with the OP.

People who track regularly use 18" R-compound rubber.....R tires produce higher decel Gs than street rubber which is really what stresses the OEM system, mainly the pads. The more grip you have the more brakes you need.

19", 20" wheels means few to no R compound tires = less need for more brakes and a larger heat sink, all backwards if you ask me.

When I see 20" wheels with giant 380mm rotors and 8 piston calipers with 300 tread wear rating 30-series Generals I think "doofus".

[JAJ]

Originally Posted by James************

If you want to stick with the smaller wheels (18"), then I would stick with stock discs and better performance brake pads. Honestly, going 19" lightweights wheels aren't a bad thing, especially with true-functioning BBKs (like Brembo). I know that the big brake kits are huge and they don't fit your typical 18" or 17" wheel, but your cars have massive amounts of power. Going 1" bigger on your stock 18" isn't going to hurt, and it'll give you a much better braking performance.

This thread is about owners wanting a wide range of pads that are easy to change (that rules out stock brakes) and a wide selection of R-comp tires to use at the track (that rules out 19" wheels).

I don't believe that the extra rotor size actually improves braking.