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      09-15-2008, 08:59 PM   #1
man02195
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VIR Track Report, 3 M-DCT cars at HPDE

There were 3 M-DCT cars at VIR this past weekend. One in the instructor group, one in A group, and one in D group.

The car is really strong, really easy to drive fast, and everything held up great for the weekend.

The car just keeps going and going, there was a vette and a couple of gt2/3s in our group that would slowly pull away from me, but not much else. The speedo showed 145-150, but my performance box only registered 140 or so on the front and back straights.

Tires: I brought TRMotorsports 18x9 with 265-35-18 BFGoodrich gForce R1s on all 4 corners. The wore well, handled great, and I'd definitely recommend them. I ran w/o spacers all around, and also kept them around 42 psi hot. Front left had more wear on the shoulder, so I let it run a few psi higher and rotated them on Sunday morning.

Brakes: Stock and Brake Fluid: Stock, There was some fade compared to my 330i with hawk ht-10 brake pads, so I'm waiting for the new PF-06's to be out in 2 months or so.

The oil temp rose to about 250 or so during the 20 minute run sessions, with 93 to 96 degree ambient. It would cool down to 210 after a leisure trip around the paddock.

Oil consumption: didn't move the electronic dipstick during the weekend
Fuel consumption: not that good, but at least the track had plenty of premium gas at $4.55, hurricane Ike caused shortages at gas stations across north carolina and virginia over the weekend.

I ran in M-Dynamic mode, didn't want to go DSC off for my first time with the car. It intevenes about 3 times each lap, but not enough to stop the fun.

M-DCT downshift issue: Yes
All 3 of us experienced the "I just don't want to shift" issue. So I'd finish braking, and as soon as I started my turn-in, I'd click click click from 6th to 3rd and start to roll into the throttle before the apex. Hope they can fix that via software.

Added a couple of pictures
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      09-15-2008, 10:06 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by man02195 View Post
Brakes: Stock and Brake Fluid: Stock, There was some fade compared to my 330i with hawk ht-10 brake pads, so I'm waiting for the new PF-06's to be out in 2 months or so.
Stock pads are definitely not up to the task when you really get on them. I'm stopping by Turner soon to get a set of Pagid RS-19s. I've already replaced the stock fluid, and it didn't boil.

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The oil temp rose to about 250 or so during the 20 minute run sessions, with 93 to 96 degree ambient. It would cool down to 210 after a leisure trip around the paddock.
My experience with oil temps has been similar.
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      09-15-2008, 11:04 PM   #3
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I'm stopping by Turner soon to get a set of Pagid RS-19s. I've already replaced the stock fluid, and it didn't boil.
What is the story with the these Pagids? Streetable or no? Loud and squeeky when cold? Any idea on how bad they dust? I.e. just a track only pad? Going for fronts and rears? Cost? Still considering OEM BMW track pads?
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      09-15-2008, 11:27 PM   #4
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What is the story with the these Pagids? Streetable or no? Loud and squeeky when cold? Any idea on how bad they dust? I.e. just a track only pad? Going for fronts and rears? Cost? Still considering OEM BMW track pads?
They're about $750 for the entire set. I believe that is considerably cheaper than BMW track pads; folks have posted on the forum their dealers want $1400 for the BMW pads. I understand Pagid RS19s when excellent bite when hot, and do OK when cold, but are very noisy. I've got 4 track days in mind for October, and then will swap them out for the winter.

Here is the "friction vs temp" graphs for the different Pagid compounds although I don't really understand what has been plotted exactly:

http://www.livermoreperformance.com/pagid.html#graph

It looks like coefficient of friction, but against what type of disc surface exactly? The disclaimer acknowledges that the coefficient of friction is related to disc material, and the chart does not include any values for the y-axis. I must assume they tested the coefficient of friction on the same disc for the different compounds listed, but do not want to publish any values since they will vary depending on disc material.

Don't know anything about how dusty the RS-19s are.

Scroll to the top of that page for the official description of the compounds.
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      09-15-2008, 11:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
What is the story with the these Pagids? Streetable or no? Loud and squeeky when cold? Any idea on how bad they dust? I.e. just a track only pad? Going for fronts and rears? Cost? Still considering OEM BMW track pads?
Pagid RS19's on the street:

Noise: Think school bus on steroids. Really noisy once they're bedded in and well used.
Dust: not bad, really.
Modulation: My wife refuses to drive the car with them on. Nose-bleed inducing if someone cuts you off and you tag the pedal in a hurry. Phenomenal at speed when hot.
Cost: $800 for both axles. I would NOT mix them with anything else.
Rotors: you need factory rotors with part numbers ending with "38x" where "x" is 5, 6, 7 or 8 depending on which corner you look at. You can see the numbers stamped into the rotor centers by looking through the wheels.

Other notes: the rears work really hard on the track if you don't turn DSC to M-dynamic mode.

OEM sport pads are hard to get and expensive. I priced them at $1500 in Canada, "not available" in the USA.
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      09-15-2008, 11:30 PM   #6
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Do you know what the offset of the TR Motorsport wheels are? What about the weight of the wheels?
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      09-15-2008, 11:35 PM   #7
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Oh, one other question, what did the other MDCT owners have to say about driving it on the track? Obviously, we all know about the downshifting issue, no need to repeat those comments.

Did you get any pad transfer and thus vibration from the front rotors?

I used the same technique for downshifting...after turn in and before the apex. It worked ok, but it certainly is a compromise.
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      09-16-2008, 11:33 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skierman64 View Post
Do you know what the offset of the TR Motorsport wheels are? What about the weight of the wheels?
skierman,

Here's sayemthree's thread on the wheels/tires

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...87#post2935787
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      09-16-2008, 11:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skierman64 View Post
Oh, one other question, what did the other MDCT owners have to say about driving it on the track? Obviously, we all know about the downshifting issue, no need to repeat those comments.

Did you get any pad transfer and thus vibration from the front rotors?

I used the same technique for downshifting...after turn in and before the apex. It worked ok, but it certainly is a compromise.
We all thought M-DCT was amazing, shifts were seamless, and you could just nail it every time at 8,000 rpm or whatever point you picked. Instead of hanging out in a gear that could be too high or too low for what comes next, you can instantly change the gear.

I did not have any vibration from the rotors, one of the other guys had one front rotor that had some vibration (we swapped the front tires and spun the rotors to see if it was warpage or deposits, he's taking it to dealer to check it out).
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      09-16-2008, 12:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
What is the story with the these Pagids? Streetable or no? Loud and squeeky when cold? Any idea on how bad they dust? I.e. just a track only pad? Going for fronts and rears? Cost? Still considering OEM BMW track pads?
Pagid yellows (19) are an endurance racing pad. I've got over 12 days on a set and they're about 50% used up. Pagid representatives have told me some team will run an entire 24 hour event with one set, yikes.

Very very noisy on the street. Tried non-squeal sprays and backer plates to no use.
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      09-16-2008, 01:02 PM   #11
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If they worked on the street, probably be too perfect.
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      09-16-2008, 01:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Pagid RS19's on the street:

Noise: Think school bus on steroids. Really noisy once they're bedded in and well used.
Dust: not bad, really.
Modulation: My wife refuses to drive the car with them on. Nose-bleed inducing if someone cuts you off and you tag the pedal in a hurry. Phenomenal at speed when hot.
Cost: $800 for both axles. I would NOT mix them with anything else.
Rotors: you need factory rotors with part numbers ending with "38x" where "x" is 5, 6, 7 or 8 depending on which corner you look at. You can see the numbers stamped into the rotor centers by looking through the wheels.

Other notes: the rears work really hard on the track if you don't turn DSC to M-dynamic mode.

OEM sport pads are hard to get and expensive. I priced them at $1500 in Canada, "not available" in the USA.
Spot on with the RS19 review.

I had them on my GT3 and loved them, asside from the sqeal-like-a-bus noise when they are cold....although I didn't care that much....but you WILL get looks from other peeps like "WTF is wrong with your car? Can't you hear that??" LOL
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      09-16-2008, 01:09 PM   #13
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If they worked on the street, probably be too perfect.
They work fine when cold, just a bit noisy!
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      09-16-2008, 03:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Stock pads are definitely not up to the task when you really get on them. I'm stopping by Turner soon to get a set of Pagid RS-19s. I've already replaced the stock fluid, and it didn't boil. My experience with oil temps has been similar.
Here's a communication from bimmerworld on the PF-06 coming out soon:

We do not have one yet. Our M3 is currently down at PFC so that they can get a pad shape for the pads and also design a big brake kit. Assuming all goes well it will take a couple of months to get pads made for the car. I also spoke with Hawk and they are still a couple of months out on pads for that car.
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      09-16-2008, 08:20 PM   #15
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I used the same technique for downshifting...after turn in and before the apex. It worked ok, but it certainly is a compromise.
Here's some feedback from a guy I know at BMW:

"It's a software issue that has been resolved. It should be available around the first of October."
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      09-16-2008, 11:47 PM   #16
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I had them on my GT3 and loved them, asside from the sqeal-like-a-bus noise when they are cold....although I didn't care that much....but you WILL get looks from other peeps like "WTF is wrong with your car? Can't you hear that??" LOL
Yeah, pretty much dead accurate. I just smile at the folks wondering what's wrong.

I installed Stoptech stainless flex lines and Castrol SRF fluid in my system - the combination has really firmed up the pedal - it's like driving with a BBK and the pedal doesn't sink when the brakes heat up - heel and toe is much more consistent.
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      09-18-2008, 10:35 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Pagid RS19's on the street:

Noise: Think school bus on steroids. Really noisy once they're bedded in and well used.
Dust: not bad, really.
Modulation: My wife refuses to drive the car with them on. Nose-bleed inducing if someone cuts you off and you tag the pedal in a hurry. Phenomenal at speed when hot.
Cost: $800 for both axles. I would NOT mix them with anything else.
Rotors: you need factory rotors with part numbers ending with "38x" where "x" is 5, 6, 7 or 8 depending on which corner you look at. You can see the numbers stamped into the rotor centers by looking through the wheels.

Other notes: the rears work really hard on the track if you don't turn DSC to M-dynamic mode.

OEM sport pads are hard to get and expensive. I priced them at $1500 in Canada, "not available" in the USA.
matches my experience with them 100% - I would also highly recommend against using them only in the front, your brake bias will shift too much...
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