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      09-02-2008, 12:47 PM   #23
mkoesel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
Yep, that is correct, I downshift as I brake aggressively with heel and toe at each down shift and do go from 5th to 4th to 3rd and then to 2nd. Speed approximately 240 kph to maybe 50 kph (donīt really see the speedometer as you may imagine when I hit the beginning of the bend).
Interesting. I am curious, what is the reason for this? Is it just to maximize the engine braking? Or is it more about keeping the RPMs up? I do understand you normally want RPM high, but durring deceleration it seems sort of superfluous.
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      09-02-2008, 12:50 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Interesting. I am curious, what is the reason for this? Is it just to maximize the engine braking? Or is it more about keeping the RPMs up? I do understand you normally want RPM high, but durring deceleration it seems sort of superfluous.
some like to keep the car in the right gear for the speeds they're at. im not that crazy about it, i skip gears doing that. if u want to maximize engine breaking u go to the lowest possible
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      09-02-2008, 03:24 PM   #25
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Whats heel and toe or rev matching?
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      09-02-2008, 03:26 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthirtyfizle View Post
Whats heel and toe or rev matching?
Something to start with: http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/how...2/article.html


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      09-02-2008, 06:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Interesting. I am curious, what is the reason for this? Is it just to maximize the engine braking? Or is it more about keeping the RPMs up? I do understand you normally want RPM high, but durring deceleration it seems sort of superfluous.
Both to keep RPM high and max engine braking but more importantly, the car stayes balanced (not going sideways etc... or something like that) going into the curb instead of throwing all the weight forward and screwing up the rest of how you take that curb.
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      09-02-2008, 06:16 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by gthirtyfizle View Post
Whats heel and toe or rev matching?
heel and toe's purpose is to rev-match while breaking. so it's rev-matching using heel-toe technique
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      09-02-2008, 06:57 PM   #29
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I read up on it. Its basically using the brake and throttle simultaneously while downshifting correct?

Also, one thing I cant seem to find is blip the throttle. Tha hell is that. lol
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      09-02-2008, 06:59 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthirtyfizle View Post
I read up on it. Its basically using the brake and throttle simultaneously while downshifting correct?

Also, one thing I cant seem to find is blip the throttle. Tha hell is that. lol
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      09-02-2008, 07:02 PM   #31
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hey.... try hitting redline in 5th and then slamming it down into 3rd. LOL!!!!!
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      09-02-2008, 07:04 PM   #32
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hey.... try hitting redline in 5th and then slamming it down into 3rd. LOL!!!!!
wth!
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      09-02-2008, 07:19 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
hey.... try hitting redline in 5th and then slamming it down into 3rd. LOL!!!!!
Ah, yet another version of the "money shift"; usually executed by mistakenly shifting into third from fourth when intending to hit 5th. Engine usually goes BLAMMO with subsequent large repair bill.
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      09-02-2008, 08:28 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
Both to keep RPM high and max engine braking but more importantly, the car stayes balanced (not going sideways etc... or something like that) going into the curb instead of throwing all the weight forward and screwing up the rest of how you take that curb.
Ok, that makes sense, yeah. I gotta say you must be good to heel-toe all those shifts in a row like that.
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      09-02-2008, 09:10 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
Ah, yet another version of the "money shift"; usually executed by mistakenly shifting into third from fourth when intending to hit 5th. Engine usually goes BLAMMO with subsequent large repair bill.
AKA the Monkey shift!
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      09-03-2008, 11:43 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Ok, that makes sense, yeah. I gotta say you must be good to heel-toe all those shifts in a row like that.
Don't know if I am very good at it (probably not) but I'll tell you one thing, its fun as hell doing it and with the Remus Race exhaust even better!!!
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      09-03-2008, 12:36 PM   #37
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Here are some usful vids, plenty of this on you tube as I discovered, notice that they don't skip gears either:



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      09-03-2008, 12:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
Here are some usful vids, plenty of this on you tube as I discovered, notice that they don't skip gears either:



Thanks for those vids, BMM. The guy in Supra was really good. He's the only one that was doing heel-toe as I think of it. The rally driver was good too, for what he had to work with (was that an old Ford Pinto, lol?). The guy in the CGT was doing what I usually end up doing which is just rolling my foot a little rather than using my heel. Kinda sucks. That's a big reason I am considering M-DCT. I want to be able to downshift and brake quickly without worrying my foot will slip off the brake pedal and send me careening into a guy waiting in the left turn lane (or oncoming traffic!).
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      09-03-2008, 01:06 PM   #39
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I thought the 'money shift' was an attempt from 5 to 3 and you end up in 1. This isn't that hard to do. So if you are doing a 5 to 3 shift, make sure you let the shifter center itself before you go up, try it too fast and BOOM!
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      09-03-2008, 01:26 PM   #40
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I thought the 'money shift' was an attempt from 5 to 3 and you end up in 1. This isn't that hard to do. So if you are doing a 5 to 3 shift, make sure you let the shifter center itself before you go up, try it too fast and BOOM!
A money shift is any shift that mechanically over-revs your motor and causes internal damage. I.e any shift that costs you money.
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      09-03-2008, 01:52 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Thanks for those vids, BMM. The guy in Supra was really good. He's the only one that was doing heel-toe as I think of it. The rally driver was good too, for what he had to work with (was that an old Ford Pinto, lol?). The guy in the CGT was doing what I usually end up doing which is just rolling my foot a little rather than using my heel. Kinda sucks. That's a big reason I am considering M-DCT. I want to be able to downshift and brake quickly without worrying my foot will slip off the brake pedal and send me careening into a guy waiting in the left turn lane (or oncoming traffic!).
All these techniques have the same end result, I us my feet like the guy in the CGT and have grown accustomed to this method. More because it is the one I was taught by my instructor who is an active Champ Car race driver and have mastered it. But I suggest you us whatever makes you feel more natural & comfortable. And yes, if you screw up you will run into the guy in front no doubt , but heel-and-toe in my view is to be used only during very aggressive driving where there is adequate space etc... so that I hardly think there would be a car in a stop light ahead of me lol!! And yes, I also agree this would be a huge reason to get M-DKT, you would avoid all this crap altogether. I however believe that if you master the technique you will actually have more control than with an M-DKT and more fun, this is ONLY my opinion however.
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      09-03-2008, 02:06 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
but heel-and-toe in my view is to be used only during very aggressive driving where there is adequate space etc... so that I hardly think there would be a car in a stop light ahead of me lol!!
Yeah, true. I just tend to drive the car as if I am in a race more often than not. It kind of begs that of you - so hard to resist. I usually end up just downshifting well before the turn so I just need to brake or just slow enough to rely only on engine braking for the turn itself. That way I don't have to worry about killing myself or others.
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      09-03-2008, 02:07 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Yeah, true. I just tend to drive the car as if I am in a race more often than not. It kind of begs that of you - so hard to resist. I usually end up just downshifting well before the turn so I just need to brake or just slow enough to rely only on engine braking for the turn itself. That way I don't have to worry about killing myself or others.
+ 1000 this is why I don't us these cars every day!!
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      09-03-2008, 06:26 PM   #44
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^^ good info. But from what i understand these cars are meant to be used everyday. And driving them aggressivley on a regular basis is how it should b. After all, the are M's.
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