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      08-27-2008, 03:35 PM   #23
Gearhead999s
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Well look here

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p..._8_bmw_m3.html

BMW M3
BEST LAP (MIN:SEC): 1:42.964
AVG. LATERAL ACCELERATION: 0.593 G
SUBJECTIVE RANKING: 2ND



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Pobst's first three words after his M3 track laps: "What a ride!" And then he got exuberant. "Makes you a believer in rear drive. Refined, but it rocks, too. Given the car's power and the fact that it's riding on street tires, the traction is excellent. Turn 4 is a fast, top of third gear corner, and while exiting at over 100 mph, I could push the M3 into a small drift. Sweetheart. Overall balance is really good-I don't remember much understeer at all. Also, the M3's steering feel is one of the best here. You've got that big fat wheel rim in your hands. Communicative and quick steering, with great satisfaction. There's body roll but not a sense of it. The damping keeps everything under control without harshness. Greater refinement than in the RX-8; you can feel there's more money in the pot." Pobst experienced a few hiccups with the DSG transmission ("shifts were harsh, and a few times when I tried to downshift it stayed in the higher gear"), but he had nothing but kudos for the chassis. "Not ready to say it's better than the R8, but what a ride!"

SUM UP: The lofty 3 Series chassis raised to even loftier heights.
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      08-27-2008, 04:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
Pobst's first three words after his M3 track laps: "What a ride!" And then he got exuberant. "Makes you a believer in rear drive. Refined, but it rocks, too. Given the car's power and the fact that it's riding on street tires, the traction is excellent. Turn 4 is a fast, top of third gear corner, and while exiting at over 100 mph, I could push the M3 into a small drift. Sweetheart. Overall balance is really good-I don't remember much understeer at all. Also, the M3's steering feel is one of the best here. You've got that big fat wheel rim in your hands. Communicative and quick steering, with great satisfaction. There's body roll but not a sense of it. The damping keeps everything under control without harshness. Greater refinement than in the RX-8; you can feel there's more money in the pot." Pobst experienced a few hiccups with the DSG transmission ("shifts were harsh, and a few times when I tried to downshift it stayed in the higher gear"), but he had nothing but kudos for the chassis. "Not ready to say it's better than the R8, but what a ride!"

SUM UP: The lofty 3 Series chassis raised to even loftier heights.
I think that is the best description of the M3 and R8.

The same about the steering, many dislike it and rate the older cars better (E36) but I like it and it seems so did he. I too didn't experience understeer either but then again I shouldn't have on the road.

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      08-27-2008, 07:42 PM   #25
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The same about the steering, many dislike it and rate the older cars better (E36) but I like it and it seems so did he. I too didn't experience understeer either but then again I shouldn't have on the road.

.

GRM ranked the e92 steering better than the e36 and the e46 M3.
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      08-27-2008, 10:13 PM   #26
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GTR 1:40.4
R8 1:40.9
911T 1:42.5
M3 1:42.9
EVO 1:47.7
Cobalt 1:47.7
Rx8 1:50.4
MINI 1:51.9
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      08-27-2008, 11:08 PM   #27
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I'm absolutely impressed. Although I have just driven the M3 once at an autocross, and I have driven just 1 day at Laguna Seca, the times posted by the M3 are incredible.

At the tight autocross I drove, the car did not push at all. My GT3, Boxster S pushed at autocrosses (fixed with alignment). The Cayman S, 996 Turbo, 997 GT3 RS pushed as well at autocrosses when I drove them. The E46 M3 pushed just really bad.

On similar tires, the M3 is just 0.4 seconds behind the $134,000 911 Turbo, that's something else.

Put a set of Hoosier R6, and the M3 can hit under 1:40s. That's pretty much among the fastest times I see on lapping days at Laguna Seca. Of course, Randy has to be driving it.
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      08-27-2008, 11:23 PM   #28
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I'm absolutely impressed. Although I have just driven the M3 once at an autocross, and I have driven just 1 day at Laguna Seca, the times posted by the M3 are incredible.
Laguna is a track where stability and acceleration really help. The M3 is a very well behaved car at higher speeds, and the grip is pretty good for being as heavy as it is.

Its biggest deficiency IMO is how slow the car transitions. At the slower autocross speeds the slower response of the chassis compared to some of the other cars becomes more of a liability.

Did they use the stock PS2s ?
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      08-28-2008, 01:34 AM   #29
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Laguna is a track where stability and acceleration really help. The M3 is a very well behaved car at higher speeds, and the grip is pretty good for being as heavy as it is.

Its biggest deficiency IMO is how slow the car transitions. At the slower autocross speeds the slower response of the chassis compared to some of the other cars becomes more of a liability.

Did they use the stock PS2s ?
Yes, they used the stock Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 on 19".

The M3 weighed 3,678 lbs. The car had the DCT (44 lbs heavier), the Tech Package and the optional sunroof which seems to be around 44 lbs heavier than the Carbon roof. Road & Track weighed a manual transmission Sedan at 3,575 lbs.

Although it is a heavy car, it weighs around the same as the 911 Turbo and Audi R8. I doubt there is a car with real rear seats that can be as fast at the track as this new M3.
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      08-28-2008, 01:39 AM   #30
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Although it is a heavy car, it weighs around the same as the 911 Turbo and Audi R8. I doubt there is a car with real rear seats that can be as fast at the track as this new M3.
I cannot think of any with a close price tag

I am just comparing it to my other car. I am having to adjust my driving style at autocross to deal with the much slower response of the M3 compared to the elise. I basically have to drive a point and shoot style rather than trying to carry momentum.

I might try to convince a friend to drive one of them down for me later this year so I can run them both on the same course and same day to compare the data logs.

I have good logs from the last autocross to compare it to a mini, but thats not the best comparison.
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      08-28-2008, 01:49 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
Pobst's first three words after his M3 track laps: "the M3's steering feel is one of the best here."
Can we please recall all of the enormous initial fussing here and other places about the poor steering feel of the M3. :

Just goes to show...
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      08-28-2008, 11:23 AM   #32
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Viper ACR 1:35.117
GT3 1:39.517
GTR 1:40.4
Z06 1:40.919
R8 1:40.9
911T 1:42.5
M3 1:42.9
Exige S 1:45.818
Cayman S 1:47.577
EVO 1:47.7
Cobalt 1:47.7
335i 1:49.038
Mazdaspeed3 1:50.375
Rx8 1:50.4
S2000 1:50.738
Mini S JCW 1:51.733
MINI 1:51.9
Civic Si 1:54.990

I am sure a Chip/tune on the 335i would be good for 7 or 8 seconds a lap!

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      08-28-2008, 11:49 AM   #33
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I think this only confirms how good the M3 is as an all around car.very impressive to say the least!
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      08-28-2008, 12:36 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I think this only confirms how good the M3 is as an all around car.very impressive to say the least!

x2 - I think the GT3 was on PSC tires also. I think the GTR comes with semi-R comp tires too?
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      08-28-2008, 12:37 PM   #35
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I think this only confirms how good the M3 is as an all around car.very impressive to say the least!

x2 - I think the GT3 was on PSC tires also. I think the GTR comes with semi-R comp tires too?

If the M3 had PSC tires it would give the GT3 a workout!
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      08-28-2008, 01:06 PM   #36
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Was anyone else impressed by the Cobalt? Over a second faster around Laguna than a 335.
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      08-28-2008, 01:20 PM   #37
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x2 - I think the GT3 was on PSC tires also. I think the GTR comes with semi-R comp tires too?

Only the GT3 rs comes with the Sport Cups as standard.
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      08-28-2008, 01:20 PM   #38
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Was anyone else impressed by the Cobalt? Over a second faster around Laguna than a 335.
It does not have runflats
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      08-28-2008, 07:06 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
Pobst's first three words after his M3 track laps: "What a ride!" And then he got exuberant. "Makes you a believer in rear drive. Refined, but it rocks, too. Given the car's power and the fact that it's riding on street tires, the traction is excellent. Turn 4 is a fast, top of third gear corner, and while exiting at over 100 mph, I could push the M3 into a small drift. Sweetheart. Overall balance is really good-I don't remember much understeer at all. Also, the M3's steering feel is one of the best here. You've got that big fat wheel rim in your hands. Communicative and quick steering, with great satisfaction. There's body roll but not a sense of it. The damping keeps everything under control without harshness. Greater refinement than in the RX-8; you can feel there's more money in the pot." Pobst experienced a few hiccups with the DSG transmission ("shifts were harsh, and a few times when I tried to downshift it stayed in the higher gear"), but he had nothing but kudos for the chassis. "Not ready to say it's better than the R8, but what a ride!"

SUM UP: The lofty 3 Series chassis raised to even loftier heights.
Granted, it's a fairly well known problem by now, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned the highlighted comments from Pobst. I wonder if BMW takes note and does something about the DCT's trouble with downshifting on the track in certain situations?
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      08-28-2008, 07:30 PM   #40
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Granted, it's a fairly well known problem by now, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned the highlighted comments from Pobst. I wonder if BMW takes note and does something about the DCT's trouble with downshifting on the track in certain situations?
I would think a software update has to be on its way to rectify the downshifting issue and the lag. I just want the tranny to shift exactly when I click the paddle or pull the lever.
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      08-28-2008, 07:56 PM   #41
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Great post!
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      08-28-2008, 08:15 PM   #42
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I would think a software update has to be on its way to rectify the downshifting issue and the lag. I just want the tranny to shift exactly when I click the paddle or pull the lever.
Again with the lag....

Its different, you need to adjust or just go back to a manual.
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      08-28-2008, 09:13 PM   #43
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Was anyone else impressed by the Cobalt? Over a second faster around Laguna than a 335.
I was thinking the exact same thing. $22k FWD 3000lb 260hp car beats $40k RWD 3500 lb 300hp car. Very close lb/hp ratio, and the 335 should handle better...
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      08-28-2008, 09:33 PM   #44
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I was thinking the exact same thing. $22k FWD 3000lb 260hp car beats $40k RWD 3500 lb 300hp car. Very close lb/hp ratio, and the 335 should handle better...
The open diff hurts, a lot.
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