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View Poll Results: what caliper
stock single piston 49 36.84%
Brembo multi piston 77 57.89%
brakes slow the car down... the point is to make it go Faster!!!!... who needs um... 7 5.26%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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      08-08-2008, 08:35 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
good point - if one were racing or doing time trials then a BBK would make sence if allowed in your class. but I suspect most peeps with a BBK never even go to the track. I'd rather spend my $4000 on track tires, gas and track pads.
No doubt, there are better things you can do for the money. The ROI on BBK for the M3 is very small. But this is a money is no object question according to KINGLEH so the answer to the poll is a no brainer.
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      08-08-2008, 09:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGLEH View Post
i would say that the person that would choose the single piston is just not as knowledgeable.. or doesn't have driving experience...
...similar mentality on the Lotus boards regarding lack of LSDs... people parroting the "company line" because they really don't know better.

Single piston brakes ...OK...if someone would find ONE race team that prefers the sliders over multipiston Iwould be amazed. Funny how every car I've ever seen that has an ability (within the rules) to change the brakes on a car
for racing goes to Brembo/Alcon/Stoptech/AP. I've never seen a team stick with sliders.

Sliders over Brembos...that's not even funny.

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Originally Posted by badfish View Post
the answer to the poll is a no brainer.
...at least it should be.
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      08-08-2008, 10:05 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGLEH View Post
the issue is not street here... (as a E9x M3 is not a basic 'street' car). so quit wondering off the topic....

drum brakes for the most part.. are good enough for the street...

the issue is what would one choose...

and to not choose the clearer better design design..


then yes.... i would say that the person that would choose the single piston is just not as knowledgeable.. or doesn't have driving experience...
in case you didn't realize...the e9x M3 IS a STREET car...licensed, designed and approved for street use...I am aware of no racing series using a showroom M3 as it's standard car...the license plate brakets are a dead give away...

I would say the person who would pay 5k for a bbk with no tangible benfit, and actually disadvantages on a street car, is the less informed, and chooses based on 'form' not function...
they do so based on a lack of mechanical knowledge, driving experience, both road & track, and are easliy swayed by arguements based solely on 'bling'...not fact..

to each their own...they gotta sell this stuff to someone...you know the old saying, a sucker born every minute, a fool and his money are soon parted...chia pets

btw, your whole premise is invalid...you assume it's a better design, that is not correct...they each have their strengths & weaknesses, and on a street car (and moderate driving school, etc. use) the sliding are a better application...

I gurantee, if they were painted, people wouldn't give a shyte
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      08-09-2008, 08:56 AM   #26
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To OP: The relatively expensive multi piston BBK would IMO be overkill for non track driving and may not actually translate into meaningful gains at the track without additional modding (e.g. fluid, lines) that allows any greater potential of the BBK system to be tapped.

Vote: Stock
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      08-09-2008, 03:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPE View Post
in case you didn't realize...the e9x M3 IS a STREET car...licensed, designed and approved for street use...I am aware of no racing series using a showroom M3 as it's standard car...the license plate brakets are a dead give away...

I would say the person who would pay 5k for a bbk with no tangible benfit, and actually disadvantages on a street car, is the less informed, and chooses based on 'form' not function...
they do so based on a lack of mechanical knowledge, driving experience, both road & track, and are easliy swayed by arguements based solely on 'bling'...not fact..

to each their own...they gotta sell this stuff to someone...you know the old saying, a sucker born every minute, a fool and his money are soon parted...chia pets

btw, your whole premise is invalid...you assume it's a better design, that is not correct...they each have their strengths & weaknesses, and on a street car (and moderate driving school, etc. use) the sliding are a better application...

I gurantee, if they were painted, people wouldn't give a shyte


wow... i didnt realize....



and your points are off topic and invalid.. and a lil dum...

i just dont think i can carry on with this argument with you....
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      08-09-2008, 03:45 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eau Rouge View Post
To OP: The relatively expensive multi piston BBK would IMO be overkill for non track driving and may not actually translate into meaningful gains at the track without additional modding (e.g. fluid, lines) that allows any greater potential of the BBK system to be tapped.

Vote: Stock


money is not an issue... as stated before...
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      08-09-2008, 05:06 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGLEH View Post
money is not an issue... as stated before...
There's no mention of money in the OP to which I replied and noted accordingly.

In Post #17 you mention money. So, at no charge/cost, my choice would be predicated on documented and published test results.

Last edited by Eau Rouge; 08-09-2008 at 05:54 PM.
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      08-09-2008, 11:44 PM   #30
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well i said which would you CHOOSE....


chooooooooooooooooooooz



chewz
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      08-10-2008, 02:05 AM   #31
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for the street the BBK is just poseur bling. no need for a BBK on the street.
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      08-10-2008, 12:48 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
for the street the BBK is just poseur bling. no need for a BBK on the street.
I 100% agree with you, no arguement and you speak the truth. And more truth:

For the street the M3 is just poseur bling. no need for an M3 on the street.


As has been posted before, the majority of M3s will never see the track and those cars are...sadly...a vestigial waste of track-based engineering.

The only reason why the M3 is able to brake as well as it does, in spite of it's ancient calipers, is the size of the rotors. It is not the "superior factory engineered calipers".

Again...

Someone please find one race team (non-poseur bling people) that chooses to stay with the stock sliders for their braking needs.... just one...


The OP's question:
if it came that way from the factory... leaving every brake part on the car the same... other then the caliper... which would you take.. the stock single piston design... or a Brembo 6 pot up front and a 4 pot in the rear...
stock single piston 27 47.37%
Brembo multi piston 28 49.12%


These results are not funny, it's puzzling...confusing...depressing. So 27 people would rather have the stock single piston sliders INSTEAD of Brembo 6/4 pots?...WTF is going on here????
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      08-10-2008, 01:02 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ace996 View Post
I 100% agree with you, no arguement and you speak the truth. And more truth:

For the street the M3 is just poseur bling. no need for an M3 on the street.
I agree thats why I track my M3 regularly.

if money is no issue just get a F430 Scuderia.
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      08-10-2008, 01:12 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
I agree thats why I track my M3 regularly.
...awesome!!!

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Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post

if money is no issue just get a F430 Scuderia.
Not my style... I'd buy a C6R from Pratt&Miller.
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      08-10-2008, 05:29 PM   #35
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Not my style... I'd buy a C6R from Pratt&Miller.
well you get the point.
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      08-10-2008, 07:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
for the street the BBK is just poseur bling. no need for a BBK on the street.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post

if money is no issue just get a F430 Scuderia.



a 430 scuderia would be the epitome of poser bling.. for the street....


but is much better on the track then a M3... just like a 6pot brembo caliper would be... on the track....

which is why everyone shoulda voted multipot.. because they bought a car.. that was tuned for the track...

and if they didnt.. then maby they just wanted the poser bling......
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      08-11-2008, 12:07 AM   #37
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anyways I voted for: brakes slow the car down... the point is to make it go Faster!!!!... who needs um...

I think almost a direct quote from Jackie Stewart.

If I had a 430 I would track it regularly. For the street a BBK is not needed. a BBK will not stop you shorter on a street. the main pro for the BBK is it is 1) much more resistant to fade. 2) less weight, 3) easier to change brake pads.

heck if money were no cost lets just have carbon ceramic brakes.
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      08-11-2008, 03:50 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
the main pro for the BBK is it is
1) much more resistant to fade.
2) less weight,
3) easier to change brake pads.
Exactly why I love my Brembos on my STI and exactly why I would love them on my (within two weeks) M3 coupe. It would certainly be disappointing if my new M3 needed upgaded calipers for HPDEs with R-compounds.

Guess which brakes found their way onto the new ALMS M3???

"Front brake system: Six-piston aluminium brake calipers, inner-vented grey-cast iron brake disks 380mm in diameter

Rear brake system: Four-piston aluminium brake calipers, grey-cast iron brake disk, 332mm in diameter"


If the stock hardware is so good, why didn't they use it???...

Be good,
TomK

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-just came home from hospital...wife just gave birth to son #2... 9lbs15oz ...all is well....
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      08-11-2008, 11:04 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ace996 View Post
Exactly why I love my Brembos on my STI and exactly why I would love them on my (within two weeks) M3 coupe. It would certainly be disappointing if my new M3 needed upgaded calipers for HPDEs with R-compounds.

Guess which brakes found their way onto the new ALMS M3???

"Front brake system: Six-piston aluminium brake calipers, inner-vented grey-cast iron brake disks 380mm in diameter

Rear brake system: Four-piston aluminium brake calipers, grey-cast iron brake disk, 332mm in diameter"


If the stock hardware is so good, why didn't they use it???...

Be good,
TomK

P.S.
-just came home from hospital...wife just gave birth to son #2... 9lbs15oz ...all is well....
race car vs. street car. why they used them on the ALMS car:
1) much more resistant to fade.
2) less weight,
3) easier to change brake pads.

you will not need upgraded calipers on the M3 - they only thing you will need for the track is track pads.
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      08-11-2008, 02:31 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post

you will not need upgraded calipers on the M3 - they only thing you will need for the track is track pads.
thats just not true...

driving hard enough... you will cook stock M brakes.....


drive harder!
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      08-12-2008, 08:48 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGLEH View Post
thats just not true...

driving hard enough... you will cook stock M brakes.....


drive harder!
Just to add my $0.02, I think this is incorrect.

I speak as someone whose car is, as I type, in the shop having a Brembo 6/4 bbk installed.

However, I should add that I had ordered the BBK prior to receiving the car (based on my E46 experience) and prior to tracking my E92 recently.

I was surprised at how the stock brakes held up on a track that is known to be hard on brakes. Now I wasn't probably braking right to the limits (mainly because the DCT issue meant I was trying not to trigger abs), but the performance was sufficient that I reckoned a pad/hose/fluid change would make them more than acceptable for most people.

This is because the nature of the degradation in performance (i.e. longer/spongier pedal travel) points more to a boiled fluid/expanded hose issue, than any issue with the calipers being overwhelmed and failing to clamp properly.

As I said, I have a bbk being installed and it looks absolutely fabulous, but the stock brakes are not lacking in power.

Mick
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      08-12-2008, 09:08 AM   #42
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I've done plenty of DE's and open track days and track pads and Castrol SRF worked fine for me. If you look at sheer stopping power the stock brakes are very good. If you run street pads and stock fluid on any system including a multi-piston set-up you will experience fade and you will probably boil your fluid. My good friend races his E60 M5 heavily, including the past 2 One Lap of America race and he uses stock brakes with race pads and Castrol SRF with no problems. If I were going to convert my car into a full race car I would probably go with multi piston brakes because, but then again I would also strip the interior, remove the AC, install a stack dash, etc. If you keep comparing what race teams do to their full fledged race cars to your street car that logic does not apply. If you can over work the stock M3 brakes with race pads and Castrol SRF you are a beast of a driver or you are running endurance races with your street car. BBK's look cool as shit but the improvement over the stock M3 brakes are minimal at best. The money I save on a BBK kit can buy me a set of track wheels and 2 sets of track tires, 2 sets of race pads, fluid and probably still have money left over. One more thing, I love when people get their BBK's install and give us a full review based on a couple of hard stops from 60-80 mph. "I can really feel the difference!! Wow!! Like night and day!!" Come on, are you being serious? Give me the review after you track the car and really put the brakes to work.
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      08-12-2008, 09:21 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGLEH View Post
thats just not true...

driving hard enough... you will cook stock M brakes.....


drive harder!

so you have a tons of experience tracking m3's? ( I think not)
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      08-12-2008, 04:16 PM   #44
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Quote:
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I've done plenty of DE's and open track days and track pads and Castrol SRF worked fine for me. If you look at sheer stopping power the stock brakes are very good. If you run street pads and stock fluid on any system including a multi-piston set-up you will experience fade and you will probably boil your fluid. My good friend races his E60 M5 heavily, including the past 2 One Lap of America race and he uses stock brakes with race pads and Castrol SRF with no problems. If I were going to convert my car into a full race car I would probably go with multi piston brakes because, but then again I would also strip the interior, remove the AC, install a stack dash, etc. If you keep comparing what race teams do to their full fledged race cars to your street car that logic does not apply. If you can over work the stock M3 brakes with race pads and Castrol SRF you are a beast of a driver or you are running endurance races with your street car. BBK's look cool as shit but the improvement over the stock M3 brakes are minimal at best. The money I save on a BBK kit can buy me a set of track wheels and 2 sets of track tires, 2 sets of race pads, fluid and probably still have money left over. One more thing, I love when people get their BBK's install and give us a full review based on a couple of hard stops from 60-80 mph. "I can really feel the difference!! Wow!! Like night and day!!" Come on, are you being serious? Give me the review after you track the car and really put the brakes to work.

i bet your friend is Jonathan Czarny.... Onelap is 3 laps.. It would be hard to cook stock M5 brakes in that time...

it took me 5 laps...



But like you said.. what you can do with that money.... in the poll money is not an issue.. but in real life.. it is.....

but i wont be doing a BBK either... i will just deal with the stock brakes...
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