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      07-31-2008, 08:02 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Helping tune a suspension system is different than doing a full ///M car. Anytime spent on a truck is wasted.
Hmm....the suspension/handling aspect is generally what makes an ///M an ///M. The 4.6is/4.8is already produced great performance numbers for an SAV. Outside of some interior changes and a bulge or two, what would be left?
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      07-31-2008, 08:04 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
My comments from another thread.....Don't be sheep....vote with your wallet.

This is crap....///M is dead

I don't think people have fully grasped the choices that BMW ///M has made.....
  • They chose to use development resources on stupid fast trucks instead of pure bred performance cars - BIG MISTAKE
  • The only way they could have kept naturally aspirated engines is to lighten the cars..... They are going the AMD / Audi route....heavy cars (4000 lbs) with lots of power... This sucks! Look at Ferrari's future, the focus is on lighter cars and flat power.
  • How on earth can we have confidence in a company that is now choosing to tune up a 5000 lb truck instead of delivering CSL versions of real M cars?
  • All the crap they have been spooning us about how BMW loves revs is going to be repackaged into efficient performance marketing campaign
People have called me a BMW fanboi.....but this is monumentally bad and I am not overreacting.

Turbocharged cars are like enjoying fresh clear air through a gas mask.

Where is Mr. Gerhard Richter? He would have NEVER allowed this. This is brand dilution at its worse.
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TB,

The reality is that BMW want big sales for all of their cars not only the mainstream and what they are doing is catering for the masses, if you want a more focus sportscar look at Porsche but for what you are looking you have to be prepared to pay top dollar.

Personally I like the way BMW are moving, they are bridging the gap between what Audi are currently and what BMW were in the past, the only problem I see for the future is that Audi are moving more towards what BMW were while BMW are moving further away from that. I can see a future where a lot here will be jumping ship.
Well said boys, I believe I will be passing on my e92 M3, getting a used '06 M3 and moving my way to audi and porsche. F*ck BMW, tired of the bean counters taking over and dumb marketing department full of people with no clue about what a car is making all the decisions.
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      07-31-2008, 08:19 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Group heads don't make explicit statement like Willisch unless it is real. They have fudiciary responsiblities as officers of the company.

I am wondering when BMW will next allow series car to wear the ///M badge if you get the upgraded suspension package.

We are kidding ourselves if we think a 5000 lb truck is true to the ///M brand and hertitage. This sucks big time.

The only car company that has remain loyal to its ethos is Ferrari. You can imagine Enzo saying "Puro Sangue". No sedans, no TRUCKS! only high performance GTs and sportscars.

BMW ///M is selling out, you guys need to wake up. The thing we love is on the way out the door.
Well said, T-Bone for President..........
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      07-31-2008, 08:29 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Well said boys, I believe I will be passing on my e92 M3, getting a used '06 M3 and moving my way to audi and porsche. F*ck BMW, tired of the bean counters taking over and dumb marketing department full of people with no clue about what a car is making all the decisions.
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      07-31-2008, 08:55 PM   #49
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great post!

Blame the marketplace and focus groups on the diluting the brand.

Question 1: "would you pay more for an M Car?"

Answer: "Yes, if it was safer, more comfortable, and was less edgy (quieter)."

Boom!! Toast!!


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Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I am already thinking that the engines in our M's are going to be the high water mark of normally aspirated street going powerplants .
You are correct at this end of the market. The exotics will probably stay NA b/c their customers afford light weight premiums.

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Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy View Post
Next is the future of M, apparently it seems that turbos are just about all we have on the menu. The F10 M5 likely will have a TT V10 with 550-600 HP with direct injection.
I just read that the next M5 will have a HO version of the 4.4 TT V8.
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      07-31-2008, 09:05 PM   #50
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BMW trademarked the name "M10" so I don't think the V10 will disappear. It might just move to the rumored "M1" style supercar (perhaps to be called ... "M10")

If the M5 and M3 go to forced induction, it's probably just the quickest solution to appease a market focused on fuel mileage. Hopefully the N/A engines will re-appear at some point... with more fantastic engineering, that gets 30mpg instead of 10mpg
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      07-31-2008, 09:25 PM   #51
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same thing was said about:
the e36
e34 M5
e46
etc.

///M has been dead for 30 years
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      07-31-2008, 09:26 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck View Post
BMW trademarked the name "M10" so I don't think the V10 will disappear. It might just move to the rumored "M1" style supercar (perhaps to be called ... "M10")

If the M5 and M3 go to forced induction, it's probably just the quickest solution to appease a market focused on fuel mileage. Hopefully the N/A engines will re-appear at some point... with more fantastic engineering, that gets 30mpg instead of 10mpg
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/07/n...twin-turbo-v8/


Next BMW M5 will nix V10 in favor of twin-turbo V8

Posted Jul 7th 2008 11:02AM by Damon Lavrinc
Filed under: Sedans/Saloons, BMW



BMW may begin straying from its long held tradition of equipping its M models with rev-happy, naturally aspirated engines. According to a source speaking with Automotive News, the twin-turbocharged 4.4-liter V8 currently equipped on the new X6, could be stroked out to 4.8-liters and fitted on future Ms, including the new M5, due out in 2011. The twin-turbo'd 3.0-liter inline six found in the 335i, 535i and entry-level X6 proved that BMW has the chops to create highly efficient and eminently entertaining blown mills, and there's no doubt that significant tweaks to the turbocharged V8 could boost power levels over the stock mill's claimed 407 hp, to take take serious aim at Audi's 572 hp RS6.

Last edited by De90man; 07-31-2008 at 09:41 PM.
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      07-31-2008, 09:30 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Helping tune a suspension system is different than doing a full ///M car. Anytime spent on a truck is wasted.
+1, //M cars are so much more than a factory car with some upgrades.....
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      08-01-2008, 07:47 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
+1, //M cars are so much more than a factory car with some upgrades.....
You're kidding, right?

With the exception of the M1, aren't all M offerings factory cars with some upgrades?

Bruce
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      08-01-2008, 12:43 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
You're kidding, right?

With the exception of the M1, aren't all M offerings factory cars with some upgrades?

Bruce

Kinda makes you chuckle, doesn't it Bruce? I tell ya....
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      08-01-2008, 03:04 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
You're kidding, right?

With the exception of the M1, aren't all M offerings factory cars with some upgrades?

Bruce

Except the Z8

M cars are modified series cars. If there is no series car, a car developed by the M division may actually not have the ///M badge like the Z8.
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      08-01-2008, 03:44 PM   #57
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Except the Z8

M cars are modified series cars. If there is no series car, a car developed by the M division may actually not have the ///M badge like the Z8.
Huh. Didn't know the Z8 was done by the M Group.

Would have rather remained ignorant, as the Z8 was no paragon.

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      08-01-2008, 04:45 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Huh. Didn't know the Z8 was done by the M Group.

Would have rather remained ignorant, as the Z8 was no paragon.

Bruce

Well said, the Z8 was not BMW's finest hours. And now finding out that M-Division did the ground work makes things even worse.

When Audi who many class as second rate at chassis design can produce such a fine example as the R8, and then BMW M-Division who many regard as first rate at chassis design produce the Z8.

WTF.

Apologizes for those with Z8s, they may be a great car in other ways but handling finesse is not one of them.
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      08-01-2008, 05:11 PM   #59
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Well said, the Z8 was not BMW's finest hours. And now finding out that M-Division did the ground work makes things even worse.

When Audi who many class as second rate at chassis design can produce such a fine example as the R8, and then BMW M-Division who many regard as first rate at chassis design produce the Z8.

WTF.

Apologizes for those with Z8s, they may be a great car in other ways but handling finesse is not one of them.
LOL! That's why it doesn't have the ///M badge.
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      08-01-2008, 05:26 PM   #60
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Is it just me ?
Yes, it is you.
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      08-01-2008, 11:33 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
You're kidding, right?

With the exception of the M1, aren't all M offerings factory cars with some upgrades?

Bruce
Nope, but thanks for playing and thanks for the sarcasm. I'm not an a**hole to you, so why not park your attitude at the door buddy......
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      08-02-2008, 07:57 AM   #62
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I am a card holding BMW fanboi so I realize that my opinion is biased. That being said...

I do have a problem with a MX5, MX6 variant...

I do have a problem with forced induction in M cars no matter how much power or fast they will go from 0-60....

I believe that although the Porsche's foray into SUV's did bief up the brand, it also tarnished the racing background of the company that for most part was devoted to only building sports cars....

We may all be owners of the last true M car for a while! Hooray on that point....

Jason
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      08-02-2008, 11:16 AM   #63
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Nope, but thanks for playing and thanks for the sarcasm. I'm not an a**hole to you, so why not park your attitude at the door buddy......
So, care to explain how M cars "...are so much more than a factory car with some upgrades..."?

Bruce
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      08-02-2008, 11:20 AM   #64
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the Z8 is a great car...

The $128,000 car had an all aluminum chassis and body and used a 4.9 L (4941 cc) 32 valve V8, that developed 400 hp (294 kW) and 500 Nm (363 ft·lbf). This engine was built by the BMW Motorsport subsidiary and was shared with the E39 M5. The engine was located behind the front axle in order to provide the car with 50/50 weight distribution. The factory claimed a 0 to 100 km/h (0 to 62.5 mph) time of 4.7 seconds; Motor Trend magazine achieved 0 to 60 mph (97 km/h) in 4.2 seconds. Road and Track measured the car's lateral grip at .92. Car and Driver magazine also tested the car and found that it outperformed the contemporary benchmark Ferrari 360 Modena in three important performance categories: acceleration, handling, and braking. As with most BMW products, its top speed was electronically limited to 155 mph (249 km/h); the car's maximum top speed with an unlocked chip was 186 mph (300 km/h).

the car weighed less than 3500 lbs
looks, subjective...retro, but not garish
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      08-04-2008, 03:58 PM   #65
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Quote:
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So, care to explain how M cars "...are so much more than a factory car with some upgrades..."?

Bruce
I'm tuning in for this one. I can't wait to hear the explanation.
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