BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
Lux Angel Eyes
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-24-2008, 04:44 PM   #1
stevespools
Private
1
Rep
95
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Philly area

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
1995 BMW M3 IP  [0.00]
M School vs BMWCCA Driver School

Has anyone done both and could describe the difference? I signed up for M School Nov 6-8 and have been a club member for a year but haven`t attended anything yet. I don`t want to abuse my car on a track while it`s still so new and under warranty. I`ve never attended any driver school or driven on a track.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 04:57 PM   #2
M34EVER
New Member
0
Rep
13
Posts

 
Drives: E46M3 01GTIVR6 E92M3 soon
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Oregon, Ct

iTrader: (0)

never done it.. but i heard its kinda of a waste spend more time in the classroom then on the track....

i dont like abusing my car either... but i would rather take a day and go up to watkins gleen and play with other Ms and porsche.... you dont need to beat on your car.. just have fun...
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 04:58 PM   #3
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevespools View Post
Has anyone done both and could describe the difference? I signed up for M School Nov 6-8 and have been a club member for a year but haven`t attended anything yet. I don`t want to abuse my car on a track while it`s still so new and under warranty. I`ve never attended any driver school or driven on a track.

If you can afford it, go to M School. Much better professional instruction and you get to beat on BMW's cars instead of your own.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 05:04 PM   #4
stevespools
Private
1
Rep
95
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Philly area

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
1995 BMW M3 IP  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
If you can afford it, go to M School. Much better professional instruction and you get to beat on BMW's cars instead of your own.
Thanks - that`s what I was thinking. Have you done M School?
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 05:05 PM   #5
antzcrashing
... can I get a 1M
antzcrashing's Avatar
13
Rep
1,111
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Miami FL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 BMW 330i  [5.00]
I am interested too. Price ballpark for M school?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 05:06 PM   #6
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevespools View Post
Thanks - that`s what I was thinking. Have you done M School?

Yes and I am doing the Advanced M school in a few weeks.

You will have a great experience with M School in Spartanburg.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 05:09 PM   #7
stevespools
Private
1
Rep
95
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Philly area

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
1995 BMW M3 IP  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Yes and I am doing the Advanced M school in a few weeks.

You will have a great experience with M School in Spartanburg.
Awesome I can`t wait. I hope the cars are all 6MT
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 05:12 PM   #8
MysticBlue
Major
18
Rep
1,315
Posts

 
Drives: '09 M3 DCT Coupe, ---'15 x50i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Eastern Oregon... They call 'em rigs here

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M34EVER View Post
never done it.. but i heard its kinda of a waste spend more time in the classroom then on the track....
Which are you referring to? I certainly didn't have any complaints about seat time at the M school. Very professional operation, first rate all the way as far as I am concerned. Haven't been to a CCA event so can't compare.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 05:12 PM   #9
stevespools
Private
1
Rep
95
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Philly area

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
1995 BMW M3 IP  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
I am interested too. Price ballpark for M school?
2 day is $3295

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...S/Default.aspx
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 05:15 PM   #10
lvwirelessguy
Captain
United_States
14
Rep
954
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3, 2012 Golf TDI
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 702

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2005 M3  [0.00]
Send a message via Yahoo to lvwirelessguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
If you can afford it, go to M School. Much better professional instruction and you get to beat on BMW's cars instead of your own.
The guys that instruct at the BMWCCA events are very professional, and alot of them have taught at The M School before.

Having said that I still want to make it to SC sometime soon
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 05:46 PM   #11
stevespools
Private
1
Rep
95
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Philly area

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
1995 BMW M3 IP  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy View Post
The guys that instruct at the BMWCCA events are very professional, and alot of them have taught at The M School before.

Having said that I still want to make it to SC sometime soon
I`ve read that the CCA instructors are very professional. I`m more concerned about driving my car on the track since I`ve never done it before and really want to drive it hard. It`s seems the best way to start by thrashing someone else`s car
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 05:54 PM   #12
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevespools View Post
I`ve read that the CCA instructors are very professional. I`m more concerned about driving my car on the track since I`ve never done it before and really want to drive it hard. It`s seems the best way to start by thrashing someone else`s car


You will have fun but it is likely your classmates will have track experience.

You will see who has driven on the track when you go through the heel-n-toe exercises.

When I went, I won the King Rat award
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 06:04 PM   #13
stevespools
Private
1
Rep
95
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Philly area

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
1995 BMW M3 IP  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
You will have fun but it is likely your classmates will have track experience.

You will see who has driven on the track when you go through the heel-n-toe exercises.

When I went, I won the King Rat award
so I should practice that? Heel/toe is blipping the throttle for downshift while braking hard in a turn?
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 06:30 PM   #14
T Bone
Brigadier General
T Bone's Avatar
145
Rep
4,021
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevespools View Post
so I should practice that? Heel/toe is blipping the throttle for downshift while braking hard in a turn?

Analyze your statement and understand your failure

Seriously, practice is very good. ONe thing that will "surprise" any one new one the track is the "blipping" that is required is much more than the streety and your foot is much deeper into brake pedal.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 06:32 PM   #15
enigma
Captain
6
Rep
689
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3 and Elise
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Land of the Microchip

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy View Post
The guys that instruct at the BMWCCA events are very professional
I would dispute this from experience.

Some of them are great, other, not so much...
__________________
Manual gearboxes, the rotary dial of cars.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 06:47 PM   #16
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
116
Rep
8,034
Posts

 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
I would dispute this from experience.

Some of them are great, other, not so much...
Agreed. I ran into some great instructors who have raced professionally and started giving me dead-on advice the minute I started driving. I ran into others who were giving me poor guidance that I ignored. But, overall, it's not a bad deal for the price.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 06:53 PM   #17
MysticBlue
Major
18
Rep
1,315
Posts

 
Drives: '09 M3 DCT Coupe, ---'15 x50i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Eastern Oregon... They call 'em rigs here

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevespools View Post
so I should practice that? Heel/toe is blipping the throttle for downshift while braking hard in a turn?
First, as you will learn, hard braking and downshift should be done before turn in, not in the turn. In any case, it is difficult to practice heel and toe on the street. It is tough to find a place where you can safely get into the brakes deep enough and long enough to do a proper heel and toe. In my (limited) experience, it feels pretty awkward to try to do it in normal street situations because you can't get the brake pedal down close the gas pedal. Having said that, it doesn't hurt to practice so when you do it at the track, at least you aren't trying something you've never tried. Just be aware that most likely when you try it on the street, it will feel awkward. It works much better at the track with an instructor working with you.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 06:54 PM   #18
stevespools
Private
1
Rep
95
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Philly area

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
1995 BMW M3 IP  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Analyze your statement and understand your failure

Seriously, practice is very good. ONe thing that will "surprise" any one new one the track is the "blipping" that is required is much more than the streety and your foot is much deeper into brake pedal.
sounds cryptic; I think you`re saying it can`t be practiced on the street. Are you advising me to do the CCA driver schools before attempting M School?
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 06:55 PM   #19
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
Lieutenant Colonel
21
Rep
1,908
Posts

 
Drives: Legacy GT - 13.704@99.39
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manheim, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevespools View Post
so I should practice that? Heel/toe is blipping the throttle for downshift while braking hard in a turn?
DON'T practice that, and don't bother trying that in your first, or even first few schools. Just use the pedals the way you're used to using them.

If you use any new technique under duress, you're more likely to screw up, and you don't want to be whistling downhill into a blind hairpin when you do that.

By the way, it will be duress after several sessions. By the end of the day, you'll be going so much faster than in the first session or two that you'll likely get your instructor's complete attention a couple of times.

That's code for scaring the poor bastard. If so, you'll hear about it.

Bruce

PS - They may possibly teach heel/toe techniques to you at the M school. Don't know. If you want to pursue that with your CCA instructors, they may help with that, but only if you slow down.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 07:02 PM   #20
MysticBlue
Major
18
Rep
1,315
Posts

 
Drives: '09 M3 DCT Coupe, ---'15 x50i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Eastern Oregon... They call 'em rigs here

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post

PS - They may possibly teach heel/toe techniques to you at the M school. Don't know. If you want to pursue that with your CCA instructors, they may help with that, but only if you slow down.
Yes they do, at least during the 2 day M school.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 07:07 PM   #21
MysticBlue
Major
18
Rep
1,315
Posts

 
Drives: '09 M3 DCT Coupe, ---'15 x50i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Eastern Oregon... They call 'em rigs here

iTrader: (0)

I would be somewhat hesitant recommending the M school to someone if they have never done a track event before. The instructors are very good and patient and will work with you but I think you will get a lot more out of it if you've done some kind of autocross or track event (with instruction) before this. At my 2 day M school there were a couple of guys there who hadn't done anything before this and were obviously in a little over their heads.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2008, 07:23 PM   #22
enigma
Captain
6
Rep
689
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3 and Elise
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Land of the Microchip

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBlue View Post
I would be somewhat hesitant recommending the M school to someone if they have never done a track event before. The instructors are very good and patient and will work with you but I think you will get a lot more out of it if you've done some kind of autocross or track event (with instruction) before this. At my 2 day M school there were a couple of guys there who hadn't done anything before this and were obviously in a little over their heads.
I have always though it best to go to a few autocrosses before a track day. Much better place to learn basic car control skills.
__________________
Manual gearboxes, the rotary dial of cars.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:35 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST