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      07-24-2008, 12:07 PM   #67
KonigsTiger
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Oh, OK, got it, my M shows 50 Cs and up to 150 Cs the middle being 100 Cs. It ussualy runs a tad over 100 when a push it really hard.
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      07-24-2008, 12:30 PM   #68
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I refuse to use a Dynojet because it is far too easy to lower the base numbers. If I use the same dyno (not Dynojet) for both runs, within two hours of each other, what is your concern? There will still be a substantial gain if your claims are accurate and your product really is that good.

The reason I'm so adamant about this topic is because I've seen a number of pulleys for this car, and all are roughly the same diameter and weight. Futhermore, I haven't heard of a power gain of more than 9hp. Unless you've used some special type of aluminum for the construction, I cannot see how a 21hp gain is possible.

You've challenged me, and I've accepted. I'm not changing my mind in any way, I just want reliable test results. I do know a little bit about cars, and I know that under the conditions I specified there will not be as substantial a gain as you've claimed. I have no problem coming to Socal as early as next week to do the test.

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Originally Posted by otoupalik View Post
If you are going to challenge me on the results, call them BS - you need to be able to use the SAME equipment.

You obviously know that every brand of dyno reads differently. Depending on the brand, the variation could be 50% less or 50% more gain.

A dynojet 248c is the most commonly used dyno nationwide to test cars for numbers. We use it for this reason. You CAN go to a dynojet 248c ANYWHERE in the US and get a number that is within 5% of any other dynojet. Two magazines have done this exact test in the last few years.

You called us out, I replied. If you want to take the challenge, then it will only be using the SAME equipment, that is the only way to guarantee parity and fairness.

If you change your mind, let me know.

FYI, the pulley install is about 4 hours (I was basing 2 hours off the M5 install - but this is more involved). It is done from above and below the car, not above like previous model M3's. You must remove the lower under panels, remove the airbox, remove the fan, remove one of the idler pulleys. Then when you are done, you have to replace all of those items. You MIGHT be able to do it quicker, but we choose not to RUSH on $70K+ cars - not worth scratching or damaging or not installing something correctly. We will provide complete instructions to do this.

thanks
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      07-24-2008, 01:49 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd54 View Post
I have no problem coming to Socal as early as next week to do the test.

Have you booked your flight?
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      07-25-2008, 04:23 PM   #70
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No response from Evosport...maybe I'll just do an independent test.

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Have you booked your flight?
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      07-25-2008, 04:33 PM   #71
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Quote:
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No response from Evosport...maybe I'll just do an independent test.
lol - I replied over and again above. I told you - same equipment, test is on. No problem. You are not willing to do that and I am not willing to take a suckers bet.

Yes, any dyno will show a gain. However, there are some dyno's that read significantly higher or lower then a dynojet. It would be very easy for you to pick one with low readings to skew the results.

Dynojet is the standard in the industry, if you don't trust in that piece of equipment, then there is not much more to say really.

thanks
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      07-25-2008, 04:36 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd54 View Post
21hp for pulleys??? That's just about the most outrageous claim I've ever heard.
Certainly is, but I suppose inflated numbers help drive sales?

-Carl
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      07-25-2008, 04:40 PM   #73
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Well then I'll continue to call you out. It's easy to lower the base numbers on a Dynojet and then correct this for a second run once the pulley system is installed, thus producing your dyno chart. I stand by my point: all pulley kits by all manufacturers are roughly the same diameter and weight, there is no way you can have a 21hp gain while the others have 9hp.


Quote:
Originally Posted by otoupalik View Post
lol - I replied over and again above. I told you - same equipment, test is on. No problem. You are not willing to do that and I am not willing to take a suckers bet.

Yes, any dyno will show a gain. However, there are some dyno's that read significantly higher or lower then a dynojet. It would be very easy for you to pick one with low readings to skew the results.

Dynojet is the standard in the industry, if you don't trust in that piece of equipment, then there is not much more to say really.

thanks
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      07-25-2008, 04:42 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spent198 View Post
Certainly is, but I suppose inflated numbers help drive sales?

-Carl
No, what drives sales is honesty, reputation, history with making horsepower. Hyped #'s only drive people to other tuners.

To those that have been supportive, thanks.

To those that just want to make derogatory comments without any knowledge of the product or our company, well you can have this thread. It is not worth the time to argue with people who are not equipped with any facts, just with cynicism and negativity.

Have a great weekend!

Thanks
Brad
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      07-25-2008, 05:49 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd54 View Post
all pulley kits by all manufacturers are roughly the same diameter and weight, there is no way you can have a 21hp gain while the others have 9hp.
Im curious for the answer to this one, I am slightly biased because I have the Rogue pulleys which I purchased with the understanding that it would give me gains of 8hp and 8tq (which I was more then satisfied with as far as the cost goes - $385). BUT at the same time I am not, if you can show me 21hp -I will remove my Rogue pulley and order yours and naturally pay for all the labor at my local shop who does my work.

However, I am not sure how you could show more then 10 hp more then your competitors? : So show us the light the man and we'll follow! I'll be the first phone call you have; overnighting EVOSPORT PULLEYS and installing them the next day if you can prove this or explain for the time being what makes your product 10hp+ better then your competitions!

Thanks!
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      07-25-2008, 05:51 PM   #76
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While I dont have an e90/e92/e93 as of yet, I do have the Evosport Pullies on my E36 and when I installed them the results were similar as advertised for my application.

Having been in this industry for quite some time, I have never known Evosport to be dishonest. The honesty, reputation, and commitment to their customers have kept me as a long time customer and a company that I refer others to.

If one is really questioning the results of these pullies, then why not purchase them and try them for yourself rather than assuming what the results are going to be. At that point, if you are unhappy with the results, I am confident Evosport will work with you so that all parties are satisfied.

I do have an E90 on order and upon its arrivial I will be installing Evosport Pullies on it and will report my results.
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      07-25-2008, 06:14 PM   #77
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This thread is not about pulleys anymore. It's more about which dyno is more accurate.
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      07-25-2008, 06:23 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
OK. The M3 has the same numbers above the meatballs (in awkard units of course). 120-210-300 F. So the temps you are running in your M6 are pretty much identical to mine in the conditions that you describe in stock form.
First pic is the M6 with stock pulleys driving in the morning. This is the normal temp when driving. (When running the pulleys, the needle would be right in the middle meatball)


Second pic is the M6 with stock pulleys driving in rush hour. (Depending on the ambient temp, I could be one or two needlewidths warmer than the middle meatball).

BTW, notice the fuel economy? Look at the fuel guage and trip odo It is in kilometers.
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      07-27-2008, 06:06 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
First pic is the M6 with stock pulleys driving in the morning. This is the normal temp when driving. (When running the pulleys, the needle would be right in the middle meatball)

Second pic is the M6 with stock pulleys driving in rush hour. (Depending on the ambient temp, I could be one or two needlewidths warmer than the middle meatball).
Yeah, similar to my experience in running around town although on a really hot sitting around in traffic it will go past the center meatball by two dial widths.

I envy your "clean" speedometer deeply, and once again curse at our luck for being stuck in the stone age here with a speedo littered with dozens of numbers everywhere...
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      07-28-2008, 10:18 AM   #80
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Absolutely same experiance here.
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      08-08-2008, 12:30 AM   #81
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Just did a review...

Got the Evosport Power Pulleys installed this morning... check out the link below...

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162024
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      08-08-2008, 08:50 AM   #82
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nd54....have you gone along with this little bet ? you going to fly down?
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      08-08-2008, 01:27 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
If you have a Dynojet, who's engine dyno did you use? How hard was it to remove the motor and entire onboard electronics for dyno testing?
No engine dyno was used. We use a correction factor of 15-17% to account for drive train loss. This is one reason why we always show wheel numbers. To many people will fudge a crank number by using a very high loss factor (such as 20%+).

thanks
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      08-08-2008, 02:49 PM   #84
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Sorry Brad, but sometimes you will have to deal with consumer skepticism. What will not drive sales is you responding to those questions by calling them "derogatory" and ignorant instead of answering them in a friendly way. I am "equipped" with what most would consider a decent amount of knowledge in this industry, most of which I thank the helpful vendors and distributors for instilling in me. Unfortunately, I can't thank you for doing such. Becoming frustrated with your consumers shouldn't be a part of your business plan. I have never had any issues with EVOSport products, but I am not alone in waiting to see proof of such gains from consumer testing.

EDIT: See, now this is all we were looking for: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162024
Now, I can add this to my list of possible future modifications, well done! There is nothing wrong with a little dose of skepticism. I apologize if I came off wrong in my post, I just wanted to provide you with the consumer point of view.

-Carl
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      08-08-2008, 03:03 PM   #85
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Agreed. I have nothing wrong with skepticism. But re-read the thread. People were calling us scam artists, saying we were BS, etc. That is totally beyond the realm of healthy skepticism, don't you think? To me that is just not called for and sets the tone.

I am glad you found that other thread!

thanks
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      08-08-2008, 03:06 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otoupalik View Post
Agreed. I have nothing wrong with skepticism. But re-read the thread. People were calling us scam artists, saying we were BS, etc. That is totally beyond the realm of healthy skepticism, don't you think? To me that is just not called for and sets the tone.

I am glad you found that other thread!

thanks
brad
Ah, see I just ignore posts like that. Once I read the first sentence and see that it adds nothing of value, I continue along. I didn't notice they were saying such things, and yes that is uncalled for. I am glad that you now have even more evidence to add credit to your results.

-Carl
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      08-28-2008, 01:39 AM   #87
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Hey Brad, I just saw something on your website.

Why don't the pulleys work with cars with DCT?
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      08-28-2008, 01:54 AM   #88
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The DCT is driven off of the crank via a belt and pulley. There are some additional considerations that we are testing to make sure that under driving the DCT will not compromise the drive quality of the car.

As it is now, DCT cars are having a lot of issues at the track and during hot runs. We need to see what impact under driving that pulley will have.

This will be rectified soon.

Thanks
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